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View Poll Results: What should happen to PheromoneTalk.com?
PheromoneTalk should become the retail forum for Androtics.com. 0 0%
PheromoneTalk should be the enthusiast's forum. 7 77.78%
Other -- Leave idea in comments below! 2 22.22%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 3rd, 2018, 09:02 AM   #1
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Default What's next for this forum?

As we split into retail and enthusiast shops, I'd like to ask everyone here?

What would you like to see happen to the forum?

Should this forum become the retail forum for Androtics.com, and we start an enthusiast forum for AndroticsLab.com elsewhere?

Or should this forum become the enthusiast forum for AndroticsLab.com, and we start a retail forum for Androtics.com elsewhere?

Of course, we might even want to ask-- should Androtics.com even have a forum? In this age of social network style social media, is it even worth it? Should we keep forums for diehard enthusiasts and experimenters only?
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Old February 3rd, 2018, 01:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

I have been following everything that has been happening so far and here are my thoughts on it all.

1.

This is just my opinion now, but I don`t think having 2 separate web sites to manage things would be very effective. I think everything should be 1 site to simplify things and to separate everything just create a separate section in the store for RU (Reporting Users) or this special lab. It would seem like more effort to manage 2 separate sites and have a ton more complications than there already is.

2.

I think updating the Instant Line or the main retail products is very first place I would start. I understand the increasing costs and everything, but you have to stay competitive as well. There has to be a balance somewhere. I seen the androtics site where Ammo was $70 I think, and can somewhat agree with this, and I can see paying a little more and will use the 30ML bottles as an example. I can see paying $60 or so for say Ammo , IG , IShine possibly and some others.

Some I think are to much IMO like IJ , IH , and Io for $120 for a 30ML bottle and this should be looked at. Also A314 I think I saw for $129 is also to much. I mean yes some people will pay for these at this price, but what is happening is people are looking at other companies for alternatives due to pricing. I have been here a long time and just trying to help in anyway I can.

So I would look start here with the main products first before anything else is considered.

3.

This goes for the main product line and custom lines as well. I would limit some of the options like 2X and 4X and also keep the scent options to a minimum. This would help simplify things. What I think is far more important with options is looking at having an oil verse alcohol options with products. I think this would appeal much more to people by far to have this option verse all the others. I would consider this instead and offer just 1 dose level instead of the 2X and 4X and with the scent off 1 or 2 max like the Stealth/Nude and then maybe 1 other like the Neroli for men or the Vanilla for the women.

The biggest problem I see is the ridiculous options that complicate things and as far as the custom line I would simplify things as this seems to be the biggest problem of all.

very first thing I would look at the scent options and what I would do is offer whatever scent package you will offer in say 5 or 10ML bottles as concentrations that people can add on there own. Most of the advance users will be more than happy in getting most of there stuff in unscented and adding something like this and if you can separate these 2 it should help with a lot of the problems I am seeing.

Next is the dosing. There should only be a handful of options for this because again most of the advance users are going to be making there own mixes. The dosing I am not sure on for the Putatives, but I seen an industry standard in the common pheromones like the Androstenone , Androsterone, Etc. in 1MG/1ML concentrations and then a lot of us make our own blends from there.

With single Putatives besides the basics, maybe not that high of a concentration, but something to where we can blend it the way we want.

The problem seems to be with customizing every single order and if you can eliminate this most of the problems should be solved.

Also another note down the road and what I have been seeing the most is people really like having the option of say an Ammo or TUTH in Ethanol or DPG and would look into this down the road as well.

I hope this helps with something and is just my opinion.

As far as the forum I would leave it if you can and just tie it into 1 website like I mentioned and I think things will be much easier doing this instead of trying to split the business into the 2 separate websites and trying to figure out what to do with the forum.

Even if you just completely redo the store, I would keep it one site and just separate it on one site with just having a separate section for the advance users. Things are just getting to complicated if you are trying to tie everything in with 2 websites.
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Old February 4th, 2018, 03:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

Because of being around for 13 years, many new users find you via the general internet search or read articles where someone has used your product like tuth or ammo and liked it and mentioned where they got it and introduce themselves.... So this forum needs to be here for them to start with the wealth of prior information intact.... They are greeted by the enthusiasts and so they too need to be here which forms a community... Opening a journal here helps promote wanting to return to the forums and join in the community, and as they start to read other posts and journals, it leads many of them to eventually start buying things other then the basic instant line... I see women adding things like MX135 or MX300 ... Men may add MX297 /597 and I see also some buy certain putatives they add to their basic line. Even within a few purchases some become tinkerers and add things like a TAC , P96 , P86 , P83 , P74 etc.. I see new people using Tuth + TAC , P96 etc. I think the majority of people are like this and retail needs to cater to them, they just want access to the full range of product offered like now and the more sizes and choice of scent, such as stealth that is exclusive, the more likely you will have their business... They further can grow into enthusiasts who are capable of providing quality testing. Build your own enthusiasts from within.

There should be incentive to send test reports when they buy certain items or # of posts or those that help newer users or moderators with discount % overall or points, but the pricing should be competitive enough without them so it attracts everyone like it does now but still has further discounts people will want to strive to get... These semi enthusiasts on the other sites who have access to other companies are going to judge based on those pricing as well, its not just brand new people who will go to that site. As mentioned in private, the use of 10ml will help meet the sweet spot of size and pricing...

Yes there is a rare guy or gal who builds their own mixes and the primary customer for the solo molecules, but that doesnt mean it needs a complete new site. Some buy things like androstenone 2.5 or P75 1.25-2.5 to add to their other product, and not making mixes... And as discussed, whatever method you may wish to partner and sell their mixes would draw a few in... Offer them the components and be the app store... Why are these mixes being sold elsewhere?? And if you have killer unique mixes at competitive pricing, the customers and enthusiasts will come period. That is also why I had suggested that some of the putatives that are now sold elsewhere under their real name frequently should be sold under their real name, so that the builders buy from you. The putative name can be beside it for reference or further reporting. Obviously those that are exclusive to you or new for testing etc should remain coded. But this would help alot with those building mixes, you are sending people needlessly to other companies again here.. If theres more to it, then do it over time, but have text that references what the names are for buyers.... Think EVERYONE should be going to you and have no reason to go elsewhere.... Over time with training and the new tech for fulfillment, you should be able to grow to handle things.

If I would go after anyone, it sounds like researchers or undergrads now that things like androstadienone have gotten pheromones out of the dark ages, to help further your mission... Part of the problem is that you need to access labs for blood and brain scans and other material to better understand what these things are doing like the researchers! If 13 years of initial data cant convince them, you'll never get them.... You had things like hedione since the beginning, yet its only now BY SOMEONE ELSE that they posted research it hits like Androstadienone in the brain, has reciprocity and cooperation, releases sex hormones.... Why arent these publications by you, with paid access or however the researchers make money to support it... Androtics should be the leader here, there is no other company in the world better set up for it...

And have various goals for where the research is leading to... M Harris wanted to change the world.... I can think of using pheromones to combat depression or anxiety as being popular and a good alternative to drugs once you understand better which are effecting things like serotonin. Oxytocin for PTSD etc. Something for pain, sexual dysfunction and would lead to profit like a drug maker They can be nasal sprays too. And once you know what something does, you can design around it... Grants and funding should be I imagine much easier when you have goals leading somewhere that people can buy into....

Either certain items can be flagged in the store to show only to those who you would have let into labs or when you cannot handle the # of orders temporarily for staffing to limit incoming orders as needed, or if its easier to have the two sites with one showing everything, and the other just certain items thats fine also. I wouldnt drop customization of individual molecules/putatives as it takes no more work for any of them, just whether you can handle the additional order or not is all that matters to accept the order or not.

I'm happy to hear you are going to sell the fragrances again solo.... I prefer to apply things like stealth in everything and then choose a fragrance in the end to apply and I think others will like doing that as well. Stealth too, so others can layer it on other unscented pheromones or mix into blends if thats required.

The stealth tech for enone was suggested in the press release and also for copulins, and I didnt suggest needed to be testing and ready right away. But that can be another competitive advantage and should be one to do when possible. Most blends use it, and it would get around the polarizing effects due to genetics and cycle effects on the scent.

Last edited by datadragon; February 4th, 2018 at 04:56 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2018, 02:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

Over the years I read many things here. Things of mystery, and things that were the product of well-meaning but overactive imagination.

I asked questions. I found guesses.

What are the magic mystery molecules in A314 or IH or TUTH ? What, maybe 6 steering mones in 314 spray at 500 nanograms each?

Why 2.5 micrograms of anol in ammo but 4 times that in 1 spray of IO ? 2.5 can't do anything? Why use it?

Crickets. Chirp, chirp. And the sound of guessing. It's magic! Do not ask questions. Burn the witch!

Forensic laboratory graduate chemists. You know who you are. They simply refuse to be active here. I've seen them run out of Dodge too often. Xev was one I've mentioned.

20 years ago we knew how much of what compounds were on the skin and what they were. They are public info. in Pherin/Erox patents. Andostadienols are not secret compounds. All of the related molecules are found on the skin at about 700 nanograms or less. Less than 10% of that becomes part of the natural mones signature. How much is your natural - enone sig.? Maybe 10 nanograms. Why? Sweat isn't perfumer's alcohol. Water and fats in sweat aren't ideal for diffusion.
See how fast a spray of pure alcohol evaporates from the skin vs. a spray of water.

All of this data is supported by the last 10 years of research using advanced direct vapor collection and desorption analysis. We know the compounds on the skin and in sweat vapor. No male or female scent fingerprint can be proved. The primary thing that affects natural phero output is andrenaline, not testosterone. Alcohol androstenol sprays do affect people. There's no evidence that any sufficient amount of anol in sweat vaporizes for transmission from one person to another.

These facts were known 10 years before this board launched. Forensic chemists cannot positively indentifiy sweat as male or female on cloth from a crime scene.

If we persist in talk like the natural phero signature as 2 micrograms of androstenone or androstenol , the scientific community will mock this and not participate.

For whatever reason the human nose and brain are highly reactive to compounds like anol , but the body produces little of it. This is the Grand Canyon that separates current, serious academic researchers from the phero hobby. The amounts in commercial sprays are ten times greater or more than natural levels.

If we assume TUTH is better than pure - enone , we must explore why. Otherwise the serious hobbyist has no prayer at making his own 314 spray. He cannot suggest what molecule to change or by what amounts. The current 314 not strong enough? What do your tests show would boost it? Kinda weird because no other vendor claims to use 80% alpha rone in their formula.

People cannot get the version of 314 they want because we cannot even discuss what makes it more or less potent. Hint: 2.5 mcg anol is more powerful than you think.

There is this sort of weird pseudo-alchemy thing that's sort of unique to this board. It kind of made sense 10 years ago to protect trade secrets. Now it just seems silly. It seems so silly to code the androstenes as putatives when they're all 20 years old in the literature and for sale elsewhere.

And that reluctance to embrace change, my Androtics friends, brought us to the unfortunate place today. Change or become irrelevant.

It doesn't make a difference if you are in the gym 9 days a week. Such a tiny amount of pheros vaporize off your skin it doesn't really matter. There may be such a thing as male copulins (scent compounds structurally similar). That's what some current research hints at. Differences in male and female skin bacteria. We will never find them if they are not for sale or discussed anywhere online. Get a whiff of them. They are supposedly 100 times more potent than 100 nanograms of - enone .

I am interested in hard, published science. Not living in the past or mumbo jumbo from 1997 about phero sigs., blood type, non-existent data about testosterone, pumping iron and - enone vapor. No disrespect. It's like veneral disease films from 1966.

I am interested in progress. Keep the legacy posts but understand many of them are junk science by 2018 standards.



I don't want this to sound negative. I think there is potential here. I am looking for solid technical advice I can't get elsewhere. I can't just dial-a-chemist for $2.88 per minute. I know that bnol is a strained axial conformation and I know that anol will autooxidize in air (without bacteria) to androstenone . I don't know exactly what androsterone oxidizes to. I am not really interested in guessing about it. I'd like to talk to experts who know and skip the guessing and speculation. I don't want to have to go elsewhere to buy named molecules but I fear that's what it's coming to if we stay in a 2005 mindset.

Last edited by monesmadedoit; February 4th, 2018 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Add footnote
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Old February 5th, 2018, 12:17 AM   #5
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

Every single post on this forum ought to stay. Deleting this vast collection of experiences would be a crime against researches and academics at all levels. They may not be cream of the crop pheromone studies, but they are valuable none the less.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 02:28 AM   #6
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Smile Re: What's next for this forum?

Those that want to make mixes androtics would sell would like a general contract for things in writing, and perhaps a non disclosure capability. They dont wish to do the sales and marketing, just the creation of the blend.

It sounds like the enthusiasts and tinkerers and blend makers can and should co exist here in the same community and not be separate. Its good for newer users who will eventually learn and can become one also if they wish.

It also sounds like at some point, a separate site for serious academic research on the hows and whys, attempts to make new inroads to drug therapies using pheromones, or other such things might attract them better if it were not mixed in the site here in pheromone theory and people looking to make pheromone mixes to get laid or be the alpha guy for work... Those researchers are the ones that may have a different mindset and goal. But much of the info I see initially starts as junk/pseudo science, it just needs proper validation and study... Many here dont claim to be experts or scientists, but come across, learn, and share valuable info that can lead to better understanding and new product possibilities with further validation and study. Studies on Androstadienone and Hedione and others already opened the doors for potentially drawing in new researchers. Some are quite happy to be honest that the scientists have previously ignored the pseudo science and are far behind, because there is a competitive advantage people are finding from the use of pheromones for various uses, and dont want everyone to know about it.

But nothing will occur if the company reputation isnt there and performs like a quality business.. Getting the back orders filled, answering questions to [email protected] timely.. Shipping timely with the new store, quality, and good service will go a long way.
And dont change what isnt broken

Last edited by datadragon; February 5th, 2018 at 05:44 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 03:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

I just came here to check if there was something interesting, and I had to say, I was unpleasantly surprised to see that the store was closing down??? I really hope I won't get kicked out when the time comes, would feel a bit awful since I had a lot of things that prevented me from ordering in a rather long time (my stock keeps getting lower and lower per day, and my wallet does not allow to buy a huge stock at the moment)

I have to say that if you like to keep the forums, keep it as a way for the enthousiasts to keep going, and don't use it for customer feedback and such. Retail is retail, aka selling stuff. Customer requests should be done there. If you have something new, something "bleeding-edge", best to keep it in the labs and have people report on it. Is it working, then you can use that feedback in the retail store? You can also quickly ask people on how certain tests are going, and you can keep people informed. I came to androtics purely because of the good support i got from people, and the fact that I can try new things (and get off the beaten path).
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Old February 10th, 2018, 04:25 AM   #8
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

I think it only makes sense to keep this forum the "enthusiasts" forum and start a whole new forum for the new mass-market store. The information here is irreplaceable and voluminous so we definitely do not want to get rid of it, but it is also very scattered and theoretical and exploratory (with much debating) and that does not help someone looking for a quick idea of what "just works" and/or what to buy to suit their needs.

Of course, it would definitely be a good idea to take some of the best material from this site and copy it to the new forum. I like to think my intro article would be good for the mass-market site.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 03:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

I know I'm like a space-traveller awaking from a deep coma and wondering what is happening (lol), so I need a moment to try and analyze all of this and come up with something coherent .
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Old February 12th, 2018, 06:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: What's next for this forum?

As a person who has started businesses, bought businesses, sold businesses, revamped businesses, and unfortunately (or fortunately) shut businesses down, I see this current Androtics situation as a normal business cycle that repeats itself on a daily basis in this country and around the world. We can only guess what really happened, but we would be probably wrong. We could listen to what Androtics says happenened and it might be true or false, but we will most likely never know, and it is not really that important in the grand scheme of things, nor is it any of our business. If things were working well they would not be having the issues they are having, and we would still be going merrily on our way, buying products and tickling noses in our own little orbits.

So what we do know is:
  • They are still in business, sort of.
  • They are not selling product.
  • The website is still up.
  • They are filling orders that are in house.
  • They say they are changing their business model(s).
  • They say they will be back later this year. No dates.
  • They are keeping the forum open in the meantime.

Realizing that there is a problem is the first step in fixing it. Check.
Coming up with a plan to fix it or shut it down is the next step. Check. Fix it.
Delivering on this plan...ongoing. In the process. Remains to be seen.

My 2 cents on this (and that's what it is worth because its not my business) is that this industry is ripe for a "roll-up" (merger of 2 or more companies); or a committed serious user with money and business acumen come into the space and take over the market. Lets face it, its not exactly a who's who in the corporate world playing in this field. No Johnson and Johnson's. No Pfizer's, no Christian Dior's. The good news is that the market is way too specialized and small for companies like that, and they probably think we are a bunch of kooks.

Lets hope it stays that way.
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