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Old August 7th, 2009, 08:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

Quote:
Originally Posted by denec View Post
Hi Michael,

Thanks for responding but I have a lot of concerns in that thread that were never answered and maybe you can answer them here directly:

1) Jasmin has said she will release the formulas of the MX and asked which ones we wanted?

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-ph...las-13404.html

In another thread she said once MX292 and the Raw Power Test pack was out for a while and tested and enough feedback has been given that formula would be released as well

I can find the posts or you can just take my word on it.

After a while I get tired of the empty promises. If you are going to promise us as customers and not follow through i rather nothing ever be said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHarris View Post
MX292 is a surprisingly simple mix, and would be a useful starting point to make mixes of your own.

This, however, is really up the forum leader at the time to actually complete, which has been Steve for quite awhile, not Jasmin. Jasmin has been working more on legal.

Since I'm here, I can probably do it myself.
Perhaps I have misread this and if so than I am sorry for that, but I feel I need to respond here, just to make sure I am clear.

I don't now, nor have I ever, had any access to any formulaic information and I am absolutely certain that has been made clear many, many times on the forum, phone-calls, tickets and every time anyone has ever asked me.

I would never tell any forum members, customers or anyone else that I would release any recipes, nor am I allowed to as it is in DIRECT CONFLICT with a signed non-disclosure agreement between myself and Androtics Research and myself and Jasmin.

When that thread was written I was a bit surprised myself and even put in a call to Jazzy asking for MX149. Since that time I can think of numerous conversations between myself and Jasmin where I clearly bring up the thread and ask how she would like it handled and/or if anything has come about it. Even if one came down without a signed amendment to my non-disclosure agreement releasing me from any specific mix I wouldn't have done it anyway. To many legalities there.

I must emphasize that this is not accusatory of anyone in any way, but I do think that a clear explanation, from my perspective was needed.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 11:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Perhaps I have misread this and if so than I am sorry for that, but I feel I need to respond here, just to make sure I am clear.

I don't now, nor have I ever, had any access to any formulaic information and I am absolutely certain that has been made clear many, many times on the forum, phone-calls, tickets and every time anyone has ever asked me.

I would never tell any forum members, customers or anyone else that I would release any recipes, nor am I allowed to as it is in DIRECT CONFLICT with a signed non-disclosure agreement between myself and Androtics Research and myself and Jasmin.

When that thread was written I was a bit surprised myself and even put in a call to Jazzy asking for MX149. Since that time I can think of numerous conversations between myself and Jasmin where I clearly bring up the thread and ask how she would like it handled and/or if anything has come about it. Even if one came down without a signed amendment to my non-disclosure agreement releasing me from any specific mix I wouldn't have done it anyway. To many legalities there.

I must emphasize that this is not accusatory of anyone in any way, but I do think that a clear explanation, from my perspective was needed.
Yes, this is very true.

I'm sorry if I implied anything else. That was perhaps an accident of not saying enough.

To be tack clear (I'll work this out in as much detail as possible so folks can understand our flow here):

The people who work here every day with every day as of this moment (this changes sometimes) are:

Steve
Mickaelia

with occasional help from others, but those are our 2 keys guys here

The 3 people at our basic compounding lab and shipping area are:
Michelle
Jacob
Amy

Amy being the sole that access formulae.

I act mostly as a behind the scenes researcher, catalyst and vision setter.

I will do lots of different things, even reprogram part the of cart if our real programmers are taking too long, but I prefer not to duplicate what anyone does here. It's not good for them (it doesn't build their "muscles" you could say), and it's not good for me (I do all the stuff that's fun for me as a anal retentive "nerd type", but most people don't seem to want to do -- otherwise I would've found a replacement already, or at least a good assistant or 3, heh)

All that said, Steve and Mick definitely DO NOT have mix formulae. Steve is 100% right. Well, almost 100%.In an R&D environment, this would disempower them as testers. Testing must always be done as blind as is possible.

I could be wrong, but I think Jasmin may have been the checkpoint here, since she's been "out of the thick of it" working mostly with both legal, suppliers and marketing. She tends to underestimate the time things take, overestimate her time, and as basically people pleaser will sometimes promise things she simply could not easily deliver upon.

Means well, but it seems her real skills are limited to a somewhat strict subset of functions (like everyone, even me, I'm a jack of all trades, sure, but only a master at just a few things). Like everyone, despite her protests otherwise (we all like think we can do everything), she's best doing certain things, and not doing others. You can whip up a great drink a blender, but you should probably use something else to grind screws into dust. A different kind of something entirely at Sears.

Anyway, since April went onto other things, the key thing to do here is arrange with Amy, and then get it approved by me. Just do the nitty gritty with her, and either her or you should send me a simple PM with the MX #, formula inside, and I'll give you the go ahead.

Make the message you send me as close to the post that you want to up, and I'll actually re-edit the thing for ya, as necessary. I'll help you establish the first few posts, the format, then you can go off of that and make amendments as necessary.

OK... as far the nitty gritty of publishing goes...

First, information theory and bottom up vs. top down.

In the past decade or so, it looks like the best route has been to keep conversions at least somewhat "unstructured" (Google scientists have a video online somewhere that describes why it's usually better to allow content generation to be bottom up, and for "search" to be the sole top down function -- i.e., this basically describes they beat the pants off of highly structured Yahoo).

That's why we don't "over organize" things and tend to let people post as they want.

That said, certain persistent topics and areas of discussion, or uniqueness of a certain type of discussion, might merit a "structure". A structured approach, anyway.

I feel this publishing MX formulae (or anybody truly publishing key formulae here) is a distinct enough activity so we should have a make a seperate forum or sub-form. Something explicitly designed for Mix Dissection and discussion.

I've wanted that for awhile now, but I had conflicts about how to do it just right without disrupting the natural conversation and creativity that happens here. Sometimes I get a little stuck, over-researching, over-contemplating how to "do things right" without causing undue harm to something else... yet I don't think, after all that research and discussion, that a simple "mix discussion" forum will really hurt anything. I get hung up especially on what I learned studying google, yet a forum like having a dedicated room for a specific function. It's not such a big deal.

I'm stuck today working on legal solutions for both our own future, as well as the future of our incessant time-wasting attackers today. Lawyers only tend to work M to F (with some exceptions, of course), so my hands are tied time-wise quite a bit weekdays.

However, I'll look over the forum and will do my best to approve structure changes to the forum this weekend to facilitate mix sharing and discussion.
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Old August 8th, 2009, 12:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

Quote:
Originally Posted by MHarris View Post
I feel this publishing MX formulae (or anybody truly publishing key formulae here) is a distinct enough activity so we should have a make a seperate forum or sub-form. Something explicitly designed for Mix Dissection and discussion.
There's a brand new sub-forum here called 'Formulation Station HQ' - password protected as it seems, so you could even choose which members have access. Wouldn't that be a good place for these things?
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

Hi, guys. So I can close this thread, as promised, I'll go ahead and post some of my private messages here.

While I initiated a new PM on August 10th entitled "Summary of issue, attempt to fix", I'll send the last 2 PMs sent in response to to Diane's last 2. (i.e., the last of an actual 2 way exchange we had) Unfortunately, I never received response to these, which is why I tried to summarize and start again on the August 10th.

I'll post the message where I'm responding my part only, in an attempt to respect her privacy.

I'll edit out certain names with an [x]

Any especially inquisitive member of the forum is invited to take a stroll through this part of my PM box, should they have iChat screen sharing.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

This PM was sent when I learned that Diane did in fact have commercial intent outside of here. I wanted to let her know that's OK, you know, it's part of life and isn't necessarily a "conflict of interest". the sentiment of which I really think should be reserved for other contexts.

As we've said before, if someone has a chance to put their product into Jessica Simpson's Love Potion Dessert, that's a great opportunity. We don't do nearly that volume yet, so I really don't want to get in the way of something like that.

Recipients: diane999
July 27th, 2009, 01:06 AM
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Subject: Re: have you had a minute to take a deep breath or two?


That's tremendous, and a good thing. You're exactly the kind of person who should be developing women's products -- or ANY products for that matter.

I'm proud of you!

I do not view that as a conflict of interest, by the way. I sell my own products, too!

And hey, if you sell some of that stuff to me, too, then I'm extra happy.

The only conflict of interest I'd see if you supplied the fraudulent side of the pheromone industry, or worst, the nearly terrorist side, which seems to be driven almost exclusively pathological sociopathy. The need to hurt others.

Providing fuel to those folks.. to reward what they do... my, my... I still get the shakes because I allow mentions of even [x] products on the site, despite their obvious analytical fraud. (again, confirm the legitimacy of their [x] with [x], from whom they copied it -- they laugh)

Honestly, I see good entrants in the market as helping everyone. All the good folks help to REALLY serve the client, and we raise the bar for all.

Also, we help the world... and hey, we live in that world, too. Prettier, happier women are good for everyone, honestly. Especially men.

[continued in next message]
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

On a more direct level... its like computer tech, Diane. As long ATI and Nvidia compete value for value, development for development, we get better video cards from each next year than we have this year.. often cheaper, too!

The computer industry is a FANTASTIC example of competition done right.

This is unintentional "coopetition" (the two sides often think they're competitors, but little do they know from a macro perspective that what they're doing is GOOD FOR EVERYONE), and it's fantastic. It means you're an active part of evolution. You are now doing exactly what our genes do when we mate.

[continued in next message]
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

From a different perspective, now... and some advice to you...

The women's cosmetic market should be fairly easy. At least in terms of product quality.

The cosmetic industry is sloppy and crude. It does not yet serve people.

Women friends will tell me about some stupid goop they bought, and I'll walk into their bathroom, mash some aspirin, put in their face, wash it off 7 minutes later.. .and prove to them that 10 cents of a common bathroom item often shows better and more obvious results than the stupid Le Mer cream they went $250 in debt for, because the sales person was "nice" to them (nice enough to what? defraud them??? NOT NICE in my book!)

I can do the same thing when they visit my house with 20 cent items from my nutrient collection. Place some of the substances from an opened gel cap or two on their face, and there's a dramatic change within minutes that they'll never see with anything they buy at the store.

If you're willing to manufacture things YOURSELF, you can actually serve people.

The sad part is that in the cosmetic industry, the nutritional industry as well, there's an endless series of outside formulators, manufacturers, fillers, etc.

You get lulled into this sense that you can just think up great ideas and have others execute them, but no... they're almost all awful.

Remember, [x] is in that business, and they can't even make [x] smell the same from batch to batch. Rancid salad dressing one batch, [x] grape juice the next.

[continued in next message]
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

consumerlab.com focuses on the vitamin industry here in the US. Ex-FDA. They do the SIMPLEST tests imaginable, and MANY pills don't pass those tests. They're underdosed, they're overdosed, they're full of lead, or what have you.

It's sad.

Anyway, if you do as we do.. if you manufacture in-house, and are very picky about who you use as your own suppliers... you can do very very well in terms of client satisfaction. You will truly serve people. After the initial growing pains, you won't even have to really think about money when you truly serve people. When you help enough others, and people start to talk, it'll come.

Don't let our re-investment strategy fool you. We make quite a bit of money here [gross], and are fairly resistant to the economy because we do truly serve people. We truly are the Trader Joes of pheromones (or as close as we can be, with the staff we have) If we didn't reinvest so heavily, we'd lead very comfortable lives... but we're holding off for awhile, so we can do something more major in the market.

[continued in next message]
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

On this planet of ours, I have identified both loneliness and boredom as two the major choke points that reduce society.

With products as "optional" seeming as pheromones, we can actually help reduce both to a major degree. I think we can take a few of our molecules, and by making certain ones popular, actually start to change the social milieu of the civilized world.

That is something money can't buy when it's in my pocket, but it can certainly buy it if I keep reinvesting it into this business and its next steps. ([x] for the backend [research], and [x] on the front)

Anyway... that's my thing...

I like making women even more beautiful, too, so your interests with cosmetics certainly parallel mine in some ways. You do a LOT for people when you make them look and feel good. When you do it in reality, instead of just lying to them to make a sale. It's very noble!

[end of pm]
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: In response to Bella, regarding copulins

Ok, and for those who want to know... what's in almost every lady's medicine chest that can do wonders for their looks?

Well, except for those who are allergic, the answer is: aspirin!

Just a few cents of aspirin provides a heck of a peel, especially when combined with a little lemon juice. Far more effective than most goops or cremes that are currently on the market.
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