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Old May 8th, 2014, 02:56 PM   #1
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Default Pheromones and Birth Control

First I would like to include a general description of what birth control pills actually do (pay attention to what I made bold):

Quote:
Birth control pills prevent pregnancy through several mechanisms, mainly by stopping ovulation. If no egg is released, there is nothing to be fertilized by sperm, and the woman cannot get pregnant. Most birth control pills contain synthetic forms of two female hormones: estrogen and progestin. These synthetic hormones stabilize a woman's natural hormone levels, and prevent estrogen from peaking mid-cycle. Without the estrogen bump, the pituitary gland does not release other hormones that normally cause the ovaries to release mature eggs.
So what you can take from this is that the natural spike of estrogen causing ovulation is suppressed.

Now an excerpt from an interesting article about pheromone study:

Quote:
There are variations in odor perception between human adult males and females. Le Magnen and Doty found that this is most evident in the case of women's acute ability to smell musk3, which are steroids, large cycloketone or lactones, often with side chains which are most likely involved with their biological specificity of action. All of these compounds are very similar to the male sex hormone testosterone (see appendix for structures). Whereas women are very sensitive (1 part in 109) to the musky odors of civetone (from the anal glands of the civet cat and used in many perfumes), exaltolide (a synthetic musk), and boar taint substance (a sexual attractant produced in the preputial glands of the boar), men are relatively insensitive (1 part in 106) to these substances. Moreover, women's sensitivity to these substances varies as a function of where they are in their menstrual cycle: during menstruation, women are no more sensitive to musks than men, but about ten days after menstruation (ovulation -- a woman's peak fertility period), women reach their maximum sensitivity. In addition, women on the pill, women who have had ovarectomies, pregnant women, and post-menopausal women are relatively insensitive to these substances. Le Magnen deduced from these results that sensitivity to musk in women is critically defendant on the levels of estrogen in the blood: during ovulation, serum estrogen is at a peak, whereas serum levels of estrogen are low during menstruation, pregnancy, in post-menopausal women, women who have had ovarectomies, and birth-control pill users. Further, it is the action of progesterone which causes nasal congestion during menstruation and pregnancy4, and might be responsible for the reduced sensitivity at these times.

Why is this relevant? Men secrete musky odorants in abundance. The -3-ol precursor of boar taint substance is found in male urine, and substances similar to testosterone, such as androstenone , are secreted in the smegma and from the apocrine glands of the underarms5 and pubic area of males. As is usually the case, bacterial action may be necessary for the release of the odorants. The fact that men's bodies secrete these substances and that women are maximally sensitive to them when they are most fertile indicates that there may be a olfactory-sexual role for these substances in human sexuality.

Indeed, a study performed by J. Richard Udry at the University of North Carolina attempted to delineate the relationship between coitus, orgasm and position in the menstrual cycle. He found that women do indeed engage in sexual intercourse about six times more frequently at about the time of ovulation, when women's sensitivity to the male musk odor is highest. In addition, the women are much more likely to have an orgasm at these times. Further, the women Udry studied women were several times less likely to have sexual intercourse or have an orgasm during and two to three days after menstruation, which is when women's sensitivity to the musky smell of men is lowest. Coupled with women's odor sensitivity, these results could indicate a possible pheromonal trigger for sexual behaviour.
Based upon these studies, doesn't it imply that women on hormonal birth control are VERY LESS likely to respond to certain sexual pheromones if at all? That is about 64% of the (edit: female) human population practicing birth control.

If that is the case, I can see an importance of pheromones that act in a non-sexual manner - trust, honesty, openness, mood, etc...

What are other peoples thoughts?

(Second quote taken from: Pheromones in Humans: Myth or Reality?)

Last edited by tarnished; May 8th, 2014 at 04:50 PM. Reason: hard to make long posts on an iphone and a few wording additions after reading it over a few more times.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 04:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

I have to address a change I made with a statistic above... it is 64% of the female population "using some form of contraception".
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Old May 8th, 2014, 08:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

Hi Tarnished, That may be the case according to the study you quoted, and another:

The relationship between oral contraceptive use and sensitivity to olfactory stimuli
Kaytlin J. Renfro , Heather Hoffmann

By "using some form of contraception" do you mean 64% are on the pill? I read that as using any form of contraception, including condoms, IUDs, and other non-pharmaceutical contraception as well, so I suspect that the number of females in the pool that have drug regulated hormone levels is significant, but smaller than the 64%.

Still, that is a large segment of the pool of women that may not be as affected by sexual mones. I believe that even this segment (on the pill) are affected by sexual pheros to some extent, just maybe not as much as women not on the pill. May need higher doses to "get" them.

So yes, I agree to draw these women in, we may need to focus more on the socials, to get them in close enough to get them to respond to the sexuals.
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Old May 9th, 2014, 02:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

Well it is easy to find a quick percentage on google (which I have irresponsively done) so here is a some more in depth stats.

Contraceptive Use in the United States

I am still very curious about pheromones and their effects on people. Coming in to this forum with a noob perspective, what stands out the most is that pheromones can and do work, it is part of being human and animals we still are. However, humans are so complicated they can never be simplified by "one size fits all". So many variables it boggles the mind. It makes sense the scientific community is in debate about the topic. Birth control really stood out to me first because, well, there are alot of females on them... being perscribed for "easier periods" sounds great at first, but there are alot of women whose libido has been destroyed by them. Quite the cruel joke for both genders. Take the pill so you dont become pregnant and loose interest in sex all together as a common side effect.

EDIT: By the way all you younger guys, stop worrying so much about this "friend zone" thing. My wife IS my best friend. I told her that a month into dating almost 15 years ago. She started to tear up thinking I didn't love her until I explained that loving partners ARE BEST FRIENDS. We celebrated our decade anniversary yesterday and both feel as though time flew by...

Last edited by tarnished; May 9th, 2014 at 03:00 AM.
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Old May 14th, 2014, 10:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

Firstly, I agree with you that best friends are sexy and that most people who want life long partners should aim to find a best friend they are extremely attracted to for maximum happiness and sexual fulfillment.

Secondly, BC pills prevent a peak of estrogen (no ovulation), which prevents a maximum sensitivity, but it doesn't mean they are not sensitive at all. It just means they are not AS sensitive. They need higher concentrations of "musk" to notice it neurologically (their threshold for detecting is raised but it still exists). Keep in mind the article mentions sensitivity is related to serum estrogen levels and bc pills are synthetic estrogen (orally so does go through the liver and decreases bioavailability- any PDR can give you the exact amount per manufacturer)

All BC pills are not created the same and not all women will respond the same way. The ideal pill is the right amount of dosing (balance between estrogen/progesterone) that prevents ovulation but allows natural fluctuations in hormones which mimic a women's normal cycle. The reason for the lack of libido (mostly bc of lack of ovulation) is also related to this flat-lining of synthetically maintaining all levels at the same amount until you force your menstruation by discontinuing (1 week sugar pills).

More women in science need to design a pill that changes concentrations daily (they are already designed and packaged for this) that fluctuate slightly in order to maintain more natural patterns so that women don't experience many of the unwanted side effects. I will talk to my pharmacist friends- they have the compounding abilities.
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Old May 14th, 2014, 10:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

Brian having made no objection, I bring you the following:

Abstract:

The relationship between oral contraceptive use and sensitivity to olfactory stimuli

The present study examined differences in olfactory sensitivity between 16 naturally cycling (NC) women and 17 women taking monophasic oral contraceptives (OCs) to six odors: lemon, peppermint, rose, musk, androstenone and androsterone. Thresholds were assessed twice for both groups of women (during the periovulatory and luteal phases of their cycles) via a forced-choice discrimination task. NC women in the periovulatory phase were significantly more sensitive to androstenone, androsterone, and musk than women taking OCs. These findings give support to odor-specific hormonal modulation of olfaction. Further, due to the social and possibly sexual nature of these odors, future work should address whether there is a relationship between decreased sensitivity to these odors and reported behavioral side effects among women taking OCs.

(Renfro and Hoffman, 2013)

There's an Easter Egg or two in the full text.

Coming soon, perhaps, gene polymorphisms and olfactory sensitivity in Asians, Europeans and mixed ethnicity.

Some websites talk about science. I spend hours every weekend actually looking for it. Hell, by 2015 or whenever, maybe the others will actually post some scintillating content instead of just promises.

I will tell you this, ladies and gentlemen: you have not been told the truth. Androtics hasn't misled you (not by design). The community has, for reasons of greed and ignorance. And the truth isn't what you think it is. Over the next few years, it will send shockwaves through some vendors and products. Stay tuned. Welcome to the New Age.
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Old May 14th, 2014, 10:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

"Based upon these studies, doesn't it imply that women on hormonal birth control are VERY LESS likely to respond to certain sexual pheromones if at all? That is about 64% of the (edit: female) human population practicing birth control."

Based upon my reading of the full-text article, I would support this premlininary finding. It appears BC pill users have perturbed from normal olfactory senses. Less sensitivity to many odors, including mones. This was earlier examined in the MHC/phenotype dissimilarity context (mechanism against kin mating/inbreeding/promotion of genetic diversity). Note the European zoo that killed the giraffes as a precaution against inbreeding. The normal evolutionary olfaction mechanisms that assist non-pill users in mate selection are corrupted in BC pill takers. Upon cessation of pill use for planned pregnancies, they now find themselves having selected the wrong DNA donor. The good DNA donor is not always the good provider. Thus, the tumultuous sea of conflicting female motives in a world of old genes and modern realities.

I don't have a ready link to the study, Celtic, but Lady has a copy. It's copyrighted material. It would be up to Androtics to post the whole thing. I may make brief quotes for fair use. Androsterone for the project was supplied by J Vaughn Kohl (SOE).

Personal note: Having lived a few years on earth, I'm not even sure FriendZone matters. Right place, right time does. If Ms. Right has a good smeller and digs your sig, it's love at first sight. That's how our ancestors did it. I think we will have the technology to use robotic pipettes to make custom A314 and Sexiness formulas specific to the individual's genotype. They amplify what we remove from clothes and bathing. I'm looking closely at GABRA gene SNP's and ligands, as well as other ideas. Possible in 10 years or sooner. Asian and European formulas possible now. This would be a premium A314. Nanogram per nanogram. Your natural signature for the ideal mate. The rest is up to you.

Last edited by monesmadedoit; May 14th, 2014 at 11:10 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2014, 12:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by monesmadedoit View Post
I think we will have the technology to use robotic pipettes to make custom A314 and Sexiness formulas specific to the individual's genotype. They amplify what we remove from clothes and bathing. I'm looking closely at GABRA gene SNP's and ligands, as well as other ideas. Possible in 10 years or sooner. Asian and European formulas possible now. This would be a premium A314. Nanogram per nanogram. Your natural signature for the ideal mate. The rest is up to you.
sounds expensive- and Gattica much. For how fervent you are about the New Age- you are scaring me Big Brother.

In the same post (s) you mention how synthetic use of chemicals resulted in the wrong DNA donor and are suggesting an altering (enhancement) synthetic of our own for an ideal mate. I can't help but see how those two are related and unwanted problems can occur.

I do think it's exciting and I would love to increase the possibility of finding my ideal match. You have speculated that I'm within a 5% of females, at brunch my guy friends speculated 1-2%. Now, consider how much of the male population would be into the 2-5% and not intimidated/weirded out/etc- they speculated less than 5%. So how am I supposed to find this 5%? I've come to terms with not finding him.
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Old May 15th, 2014, 02:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyScientist View Post
sounds expensive- and Gattica much. For how fervent you are about the New Age- you are scaring me Big Brother.

In the same post (s) you mention how synthetic use of chemicals resulted in the wrong DNA donor and are suggesting an altering (enhancement) synthetic of our own for an ideal mate. I can't help but see how those two are related and unwanted problems can occur.
Synthetic pheromone usage is much more like wearing makeup. Makeup reflects the wearer. There are a myriad of psychological reasons why women (and men) wear it. Elders want to appear younger. Younger want to appear older. Birthmarks. Flash bulbs. Insecurity. Narcissism. Self confidence. Lack of Self Confidence. Perceived Advantage. Actual advantage. Influence. Power. Ad nauseum...

I wish I could find this reference again, but google is broken:

Communist women bore more naturally attractive children because makeup was outlawed in the bloc. Unlike in the west, if you're "ugly" (read: lacking cues for positive reproductive outcomes, full lips, full hips, estrogenic, feminine face), you had no access to makeup to "correct" the "flaw. This forced more "attractive" women into the mating pool, and selectively extincted uglier ones.

The inverse has taken itself to a pathological extreme in China, where men are suing their "ugly" wives/baby mamas for undisclosed beautifying plastic surgery. And winning.


Quote:
I do think it's exciting and I would love to increase the possibility of finding my ideal match. You have speculated that I'm within a 5% of females, at brunch my guy friends speculated 1-2%. Now, consider how much of the male population would be into the 2-5% and not intimidated/weirded out/etc- they speculated less than 5%. So how am I supposed to find this 5%? I've come to terms with not finding him.
Apparently, you're supposed to trust OkCupid algorithms to serve up Your Ideal Mate. The first billion to go to the online dating site that tracks genitalia size and folds that into their algorithm. (Just for you, ladyS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by monesmadedoit View Post
Personal note: Having lived a few years on earth, I'm not even sure FriendZone matters. Right place, right time does. If Ms. Right has a good smeller and digs your sig, it's love at first sight. That's how our ancestors did it. I think we will have the technology to use robotic pipettes to make custom A314 and Sexiness formulas specific to the individual's genotype. They amplify what we remove from clothes and bathing. I'm looking closely at GABRA gene SNP's and ligands, as well as other ideas. Possible in 10 years or sooner. Asian and European formulas possible now. This would be a premium A314. Nanogram per nanogram. Your natural signature for the ideal mate. The rest is up to you.
ExperiMone is the rudimentary first draft of this. Your ability to tailor your own personal mix is the idea. Actually, that's the whole idea of modular pheromones (instant line). MMDI is taking it one (ten) step(s) further.

Ideally, not just pheromones and cosmetics would be customers for this technology, but designer drugs, treatments and disease protocols. The whole world is moving in a more personalized direction. And as the big institutions buy ever more complex technology to perform these previously unrealistic feats of engineering, a new breed of experts will be designing the protocols that drive the frontier.

People used to watch CBS, NBC, and ABC. Now there exists an infinite sea of content providers, from dorky teenager making 6 second Vines, to elaborately produced TED talk, all accessible, 24/7 and anywhere within cell tower radius or satellite, via the computer you carry in your pocket. Whereas you were only allowed to watch Monday Night Football on television any given Monday night, you can spend your Monday night diving into the deep hole of your subscribed youtube videoblogs - YOUR channel, customized to YOUR persona.

If television can come that far in less than a century, maybe designer preparations are not far behind.
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Old May 15th, 2014, 02:19 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pheromones and Birth Control

That's the difference- Experimone is user controlled. I don't want companies accessing my genotype and deciding what areas to enhance.

The examples you used about make up and China are both spot on-- technology, innovation and medicine have to co-evolve with natural selection. The moment we eliminate the intricate/ multiple core foundations of evolution and leave it all up to the few and far between random mutations, we are robbing our future selves of our potential.

and maybe I'm more conservative in my approach- but I trust the way we got here and would rather be as minimal in my alteration as possible. (natural looking make up for example)
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