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Old January 4th, 2006, 07:35 PM   #21
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Default Re: have noticed this as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
One of the great mistakes is to assume that you will see results with 5-15 minutes. Sometimes you do, sometimes it appears that nothing is happening. "Appears" is the operant concept here...
Oh, something is definitely happening alright, whether you SEE it or not. There are very fast reactions by people's bodies and minds, whether you they're overt and visible or not.

It's why, even when people ACT stone cold to you wearing mones , your memorability with them will be huge... and they'll enter into exaggerated discussions about you behind your back that you may only hear "through the grapevine", if ever.

Most of us tend to notice mostly responses, not reactions. Responses meaning those obvious and overt communication signals which are consciously formed behaviours that people let or want us to see.

Pure reactions are different, and you have to be quite skilled to pick them up.

You have to be very aware of bodily reactions people don't know better or have the practice to control.

Things like breathing rate, moisture on the skin (you can tell if it changes from matte to shiny, for instance), openness of the pupils/eye dilation (you have to be a real whiz to notice this!), microexpressions that happen in split seconds (this, too, requires outstanding sensory acuity to pickup), redness of the skin.

Some people claim to be able to self train themselves to internally exagerrate people's responses, to make them easier to see. Forms of internal "size distortion". Objects inside our mind appearing bigger than they actually are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
one alternate possibility is that most people are experiencing life stresses on one or more levels and their thinking becomes locked into various thought loops and conceptual rigidities around those stresses. Few people are so free and elastic that they can reset their emotional states on the fly.
Yes, indeed, there are many rigid patterns. Calcification of the noggin, and neural pathways traveled... too often. (and too intensely, if these are stressful patterns)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
In many cases there seems to be a latency period where the mind reorients itself in preparation for a new internal context.... i.e. internally stressing out about work, relationship, health, family, then dropping all of that, or processing it in a new and different way, then becoming more externally focused. Or there are some types who are emotionally unavailable, self absorbed either through mild depression or egotism or just wrapped up in their head movies that take a while to snap out of it and join the universe.
And to join us in "present time".

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
Sometimes this is the result of a combination of good social interaction skills and pheromones, where the pheromone by itself can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse... OTOH, intelligent use of pheromones will, over time, enhance the social skills of the pheromone user because of the increased depth of interaction... so there is a synergistic learning curve here, you may attribute your success over time to the pheromones, where you may be overlooking your own increased social competence... then think, some months later, wow, this new pheromone is so good, and maybe it is, while you've gotten better too.

A self dissolving crutch (or stitch) is the best kind.

Many people definitely increase in competence as they use pheromones, and that's a good thing.

Like physical therapy, it can sort of be like "social therapy". Relearning how to use "social muscles you haven't used in years", or have underused (and even the best and most skilled of us have "muscles" of all sorts which are underused).

Then those users may switch from using mones as crutches to using them as enhancement and playful experiments. They can also collect the self esteem bonus along the way for having themselves gained in competence.

And they are great for enhancement, great for those already quite competent. We've seen skilled salespeople their close rates with the right mixes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
I now think of pheromones as a role or a mask that deepens and intensifies some of my own qualities and allows me to concentrate my psychic energy in a very focused or productive way, and with others these energy foci may take hours or days to fully develop.
So you've seen pheromonal effects on others develop over days?

May have, too, but it's not so easy for me to mentally sort.

I definitely understand the pheromone development that occurs on oneself over many days, and even years, though.

I suppose what you're saying is that just as pheromones can impact you over the days and years, you can be having similar effects on other people, as well. Is that correct?

Makes sense.

Last edited by MHarris; January 4th, 2006 at 07:41 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2006, 07:41 PM   #22
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Question re: Instant Openness, Instant Honesty, Instant Shine, Instant Female Magic, A314!!!

ah - just read prev message and these are mentioned by mharris (but my question stands)

any thoughts on how to better notice the micro-expressions that paul ekman has cataloged? the idea is that people often reveal their true feeling in social situations for an instant before it is masked by a socially-acceptable feeling. one way would be just througth practice. (there is an aspect of overcoming inhibition since people seem to act as if it is considered rude to notice what you're not intended to).

i wonder if taf might make any difference in that respect. I haven't yet tried but will do. any other experimental or putative mones that might affect the internal clock? (I think somebody there was a discussion of micro-expressions on another thread before, but can't find it just now).
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Old January 4th, 2006, 07:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: nol, beta-nol and override by neocortex

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
suppose you have an amazingly open, deep and almost intimate discussion with a girl you just met (or at least don't know very well). what do you think goes through her mind afterwards? i mean i could imagine she could be left with a very positive impression of you and her interaction with you if she can find a way to rationalise it.

but if her mental map is incongruous with how she feels i suppose she might feel strange about things. so I suppose it might sometimes be important as well as behaving in a way thats congruent with your pheromonal signature to indirectly hint at potential reasons for the openness and your good rapport that will stick in her head later on when she is going over things again.

I don't know. but as MHarris has pointed out I think it is key to find ways to strengthen congruence.
Congruency helps a ton, unless you're deranged and actually want to make someone accept an incongruency. (which works wonderfully to create slaves - cults and cult like organizations know that if they can someone to accept enough things which don't make sense, they'll have a mushy mind to push around)

Congruency comes with practice. With being.

I'm sure you were an astronaut as a child. For a week or a day. But it is what you pretend to be for years that you "are now".

All reality comes from make believe. We become what we practice preaching and being, it's as simple as that.
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Old January 4th, 2006, 08:03 PM   #24
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Default Re: have noticed this as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
This seems very true. Many people seem to use ethanol as a learning tool also - using it to blunt the fear of talking to somebody unknown and potentially being rejected - and then acquiring more permanent social skills via trial and error. Not without its pitfalls, obviously.

Beyond acting classes and NLP, any particular exercises or games you would suggest when moned up to improve one's social competence?
See my previous post. Practice really does make perfect, or at least, "practice makes congruent".

There's also this book for book for autistics on how to act normally. It's because they live in a different perceptual "spectrum", from what I understand. So to bridge our realities together, they have books for them on how to convincingly act "normal".

I worked with several autistics once upon a time, and saw one of these books. Even though it left an indelible impression on me, I sure as heck can't remember the name. Wish I did.

I think I saw in another post of yours that you had social anxiety, right?

Removing or significantly decreasing the intensity of that can help your social competence, by encouraging you to just get in there.

There's many ways to do that. Out of the pheromones, try Instant Shine , or maybe something androstenone based (in very small quantity!).

You can also repurpose that energy mentally by NLP techniques, or even by telling yourself a simple story.

Remember, social anxiety is just energy. And so is money - money represents a certain amount of energy. That's a certain, valid way of looking at money. Like money, you can remove your investment of energy from anxiety and invest it in excitement instead, or whatever investment you consider "better" (you must have a specific idea of what you want to replace the anxiety with)

At the moment you experience social anxiety, remind yourself "This is a stupid ass investment. Here, I'm removing it. Ahhh. Now, I'm going to invest this same energy into being boisterous and funny.... yyyyyeah!". Shrink and blacken any mental pictures or movies of you being anxious, and instantly replace them with bright huge movies of you first person being however you want to be.

Works wonders. So does breathing.

I've always noticed that people don't remember to breath during mental burps. Remember to breathe. Remember to be happy. Honestly remember that you are unique and wonderful and as worth sharing your presence as even the most wonderful human being you've ever had the pleasure to meet. For what was inside of them, is inside of you, now, too.

Remember these things and honestly keep them close inside your mind, and deep inside your heart, as no sooner do you allow them to go deep inside now... do your new understandings allow you to act as you want to act, and be as you want to be... now... because they are 100% true.

Last edited by MHarris; January 4th, 2006 at 08:09 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2006, 08:17 PM   #25
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Default re: Instant Openness, Instant Honesty, Instant Shine, Instant Female Magic, A314!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
ah - just read prev message and these are mentioned by mharris (but my question stands)

any thoughts on how to better notice the micro-expressions that paul ekman has cataloged? the idea is that people often reveal their true feeling in social situations for an instant before it is masked by a socially-acceptable feeling. one way would be just througth practice. (there is an aspect of overcoming inhibition since people seem to act as if it is considered rude to notice what you're not intended to).
I'd use TAF or Instant Lucidity, and maybe learn soem light self-hypnosis.

We always time distort (time passing fast when we're having fun and slow when we're not - that kind of thing), and mild self-hypnosis allows you to take control of that. It will allow you to better notice microexpressions and other subtlies of human expression.

If you're familiar with what I'm about to say, I would also recommend a brain boost in both waking theta and high beta k brain frequencies. A simultaneous boost, not merely a shift or preponderancy in one or the other, as many seek to achieve.

You can also use Instant Honesty to allow people to better express their "true feelings". I've seen people become quite rude with IH , that's why I generally recommend you "steer it" with something that makes them feel good.

After all, what is a true feeling? I doubt anger really is. It's as temporal and shifting as anything else. You can actually feel good for extended periods of time, and it works just great. You don't need good and bad, necessarily, as much as you need good and better.

I'd recommend "steering" instead of trying to find "true feelings". Many people I see searching for true feelings often won't believe it when they find good ones, as if good feelings aren't "authentic" (oooh, I feel like Maslow!) or something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
i wonder if taf might make any difference in that respect. I haven't yet tried but will do. any other experimental or putative mones that might affect the internal clock? (I think somebody there was a discussion of micro-expressions on another thread before, but can't find it just now).
Definitely!

All mones appear to mess with the internal clock to one degree or another. TAF seems to do it in a major way.
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Old January 4th, 2006, 09:59 PM   #26
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Exclamation ummmmmm.... a recent happy experience

attended a body consciousness type seminar recently where I was able to observe the strange longer term magic of -dienol + a314 (a lot of -dienol, a decent amout of a314 ).... and now, days later and mostly evaporated off, notice that I'm emerging from some type of altered state that didn't feel particularly deep or different at the time... however it now looks like I did in fact experience a profound change that went closer to my personality core, machine language, whatever you want to call it, places in my self I don't typically have access to for reprogramming... now that I'm "back" I do observe that a deep malaise, sort of a long term gothic gloom that was so embedded in my nature as to be a character trait has rather nicely dissolved, and with it many of the *submodality* stylings (ask your NLP buddies about this) and been replaced by a new thing, brighter, more confident, more willing to grow and less clinging to dark old chthonicities, and most curiously, this isn't a transient boost or hype up, is feels like a genuine core level reset... so I might begin to think that - mones , used correctly, can allow for powerful healing and restructuring processes through group energies, IF IF IF they are the right group energies, and that makes me also think one should be doubly careful about what energies one allows near one's deep self if - mones could amplify that as well...
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Old January 4th, 2006, 10:54 PM   #27
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Post re: Instant Openness, Instant Honesty, Instant Shine, Instant Female Magic, A314!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MHarris
I'd use TAF or Instant Lucidity
ah, it is being prepped for prime time release, then?

Quote:
maybe learn soem light self-hypnosis

We always time distort (time passing fast when we're having fun and slow when we're not - that kind of thing), and mild self-hypnosis allows you to take control of that. It will allow you to better notice microexpressions and other subtlies of human expression.
v interesting. is there an nlp way to do this, or the self-hypnosis orthogonal to nlp ?

Quote:
If you're familiar with what I'm about to say, I would also recommend a brain boost in both waking theta and high beta k brain frequencies. A simultaneous boost, not merely a shift or preponderancy in one or the other, as many seek to achieve.
will google to learn more.

Quote:
You can also use Instant Honesty to allow people to better express their "true feelings". I've seen people become quite rude with IH, that's why I generally recommend you "steer it" with something that makes them feel good.
so far with betanol and alpha-beta nol mixes I have only seen people speak frankly of others and not heard their brutally frank personal opinions of me. but i suppose most of the time i have had on some none, rone or a314 at least left over from the previous day,

Quote:
I'd recommend "steering" instead of trying to find "true feelings". Many people I see searching for true feelings often won't believe it when they find good ones, as if good feelings aren't "authentic" (oooh, I feel like Maslow!) or something.
interesting...

Quote:
All mones appear to mess with the internal clock to one degree or another. TAF seems to do it in a major way.
do any mones slow the clock down so that what seems like an hour is really only 15 min? the way that nols draw one into conversation seem to have the opposite effect. and i think TAF is the same direction, though time distortion was not the most noticeable effect.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 08:02 AM   #28
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Default re: Instant Openness, Instant Honesty, Instant Shine, Instant Female Magic, A314!!!

Day 2-

Marks the last non-scientific approach. I put 2 drops A314 and a spray of instant openess and instant shine . I got more attention and more people acknowledged me or said Hi than normal. I was in a great mood for most of the day. My boss called me over to have a discussion and gave me more respect than normal especially considering it was over a problem I had caused. Subtle stuff and nothing like the hair dresser or Mall incidents but still a bit more than the norm. I hesitate to test at work because I am isolated in a cube and the only contact I have is when i am walking around....even that is just in passing. Seems like a waste to me. Over the next week with exception of my night out I will only be testing Instant Openess at various dosages.
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Old January 6th, 2006, 05:24 AM   #29
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Default re: Instant Openness, Instant Honesty, Instant Shine, Instant Female Magic, A314!!!

Day 3

Day 3 was rough. I put 3 sprays of IO on and a spray of IS ((I know I wasnt suppose to but I was feeling grumpy and felt like getting the feel good from it)). I got pulled over for speeding though. The cop started out all pissed. Said I must be blind because I drove right past him on the highway and blabla. Then he seemed to lighten up just like that as if he felt bad for being so rude....he goes where are you heading to? I said I was heading to work. Then he said what time you due in? I said in 5 minutes. He said "That must be why" in a friendly understanding way. He was all polite and nice after that. He did not let me off though which was disappointing. Perhaps if I had a better mix I may have got off...but he probably didnt get exposed too much anyhow. Anyway I made 5 observations today:

1) These products have some good potential and instead of wearing them daily at work I should only use them in good testing situations so as to not waste them. I am going to look to save them as much as possible for situations where I will be around people for prolonged periods and for field tests.

2) Instant Shine does help with mood...even after getting 250 dollars in tickets and being late for work I had a calm well being about me. I was disappointed and felt bad about it but I also felt I could handle it and I would survive and I still felt the effects of the IS. To me this means it is not a placebo effect. Its for real.

3) A314 does indeed give me a sort of focused in tune type of responsible feeling. It makes me less spacy and more determined. Its a very subtle thing but I notice it and I missed that feeling today.

4) Despite 3 sprays of Instant Openess there was less conversation or Hi's today. It is important to note though that I was not walking around as much and did not pass by nearly as many people. I spent my lunch and breaks dealing with my ticket issues instead of lurking around to notice any changes due to the product. Tomorrow I will test again because I consider this a throw away day. Tomorrow will settle it.

5) I did notice a bit of a none effect towards the later part of the day (3-7 range) I applied around 8 am but had no none applied. I am wondering if perhaps the IO converted?
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Old January 6th, 2006, 12:27 PM   #30
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Default Re: ummmmmm.... a recent happy experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
attended a body consciousness type seminar recently where I was able to observe the strange longer term magic of -dienol +a314 (a lot of -dienol, a decent amout of a314).... and now, days later and mostly evaporated off, notice that I'm emerging from some type of altered state that didn't feel particularly deep or different at the time... however it now looks like I did in fact experience a profound change that went closer to my personality core, machine language, whatever you want to call it, places in my self I don't typically have access to for reprogramming... now that I'm "back" I do observe that a deep malaise, sort of a long term gothic gloom that was so embedded in my nature as to be a character trait has rather nicely dissolved, and with it many of the *submodality* stylings (ask your NLP buddies about this) and been replaced by a new thing, brighter, more confident, more willing to grow and less clinging to dark old chthonicities, and most curiously, this isn't a transient boost or hype up, is feels like a genuine core level reset... so I might begin to think that -mones, used correctly, can allow for powerful healing and restructuring processes through group energies, IF IF IF they are the right group energies, and that makes me also think one should be doubly careful about what energies one allows near one's deep self if -mones could amplify that as well...
Really interesting.

Who gave the seminar?

Did people not using the pheromone report similar effects in a believable way? Maybe you should followup with some of them.

I would think that the dienol helped most in this instance, although there are some "profound" pheromones in A314 . Depends on how much you'd use for their action to become over the top overt.
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