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Old October 17th, 2005, 12:48 PM   #1
MHarris Male
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Default Department store fragrances in pheromones

I know that amongst the experimenters that everyone's Nirvana is "unscented". You can't actually do this with all pheromones, you have to denature some for legal reasons, so consumers know that they're not drinkable.

I know, I know, who'd drink pheromones? But hey, people drink mouthwash every day, and it's a legal necessity.

Now, we work with some large fragrance companies, one of which is the largest creator of fragrances in the world.

There's no way that each and everyone one of you hasn't smelled their products on other people, or in scented products you found around your house. They're ubiqituous. They're everywhere.

Well, just like we have more pheromone technology than most... they have more scent technology than most.

What their scent technology also has is more DIFFUSIVE technology than most. That is, the ability to really PROJECT scent. To get the fragrance molecules out there.

Now, what I've noticed is, when I've made mixes with their fragrance packages, they seem work a heck of a letter better and produce much more OBVIOUS results than unscented.

They even work better than the diffusive tricks I've developed through research and Edison-like trial and error (testing literally hundreds and hundreds of oils and fragrance components over time). I've found a small handful, not a few fingers full, of chemicals and essential oils that really and truly project.

What our fragrance supplier has, though, is hundreds of formulators who've worked over the years to develop the best possible diffusive technology. They have me beat by a mile.

One of the drums of scent we have from isn't even "top of the line", per se, but it still kicks the ass diffusion wise of anything else I've seen in the pheromone industry.

What do you guys think?

One fragrance package I have is this sort of very acceptable citrus scent, acceptable to both men and women. It's more likable than lovable, but that's part of what makes it not hatable. It doesn't disagree with many people. Haven't heard one bad comment yet, and even a few compliments, even though I personally think it's only happily "acceptable".

I've been toying around with the idea of a scented experimone kit to offer alongside the unscented, or the one with the proper essential oils added.

If they ALL contain the exact same amount of the citrus type fragrance, then everything in the kit would work together... no clashes.

The only thing it might clash with is other fragrances.

Beyond that, I think it would be an exciting and useful products for those people who like to see obvious results.

Feedback please.
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Old October 17th, 2005, 04:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

Diffusion is as important as what you wearing, in fact, maybe more.

I've tried to get my head wrapped around this issue as well, while also working to control conversion. The methods sometimes counteract one another.

There's a definite diffusion issue with using some oils, natural colognes. I've been using the orange and the brock cologne to test and have found that does a better job with the diffusion. Is one of these what you are referring to?

As far as a fragranced kit, it might be easier to just add the diffusion cologne with it that people can shoot on as a cover. I don't think it saves much time to have them in the actual test series, does it?
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Old October 17th, 2005, 04:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

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Originally Posted by Futurist
Diffusion is as important as what you wearing, in fact, maybe more.

I've tried to get my head wrapped around this issue as well, while also working to control conversion. The methods sometimes counteract one another.

There's a definite diffusion issue with using some oils, natural colognes. I've been using the orange and the brock cologne to test and have found that does a better job with the diffusion. Is one of these what you are referring to?

As far as a fragranced kit, it might be easier to just add the diffusion cologne with it that people can shoot on as a cover. I don't think it saves much time to have them in the actual test series, does it?
Those are the two. Brock has actually been repurposed now for a different project. Your "Brock" may have been modified by me, before I knew better.

Having them IN the test series actually helps, yes.

I do not get the same effects with spray over as I do combining them.

Therein lies the rub.

I was Come Talk To Me v2 for awhile, for instance. It was good, and I often covered with cologne. Then I used a single 20mcg spray of CTTM2 that had the orange scent mixed in. Sprayed it on my left wrist.

Expected very little to occur, as a small amount of nols usually doesn't do much.

Went to the grocery store. Had hits I couldn't believe, especially from teenage girls. If this one girl's father didn't keep giving me dirty looks as his princess DIHL 'ed everywhere, wondering what was wrong with his daughter, I swear I would've been breaking age of consent laws. (just kidding - she looked 18, I swear! )

This was interesting, too, because the previous day, same store, had massive 'hits' for a masculine formula I was testing but with much older women.

I like easy contrast like that. Two completely different social "vibes" and results, one day after the other. I was the exact same person, but with the power of pheromones, I felt like two different people because of that. Fun stuff.
...

Mind you, I don't believe in "hits" much, because I think focusing on them too much demasculinizes men and generally gives them the wrong idea... but that doesn't mean they don't happen! It's an interesting phenomenon to observe, but it's more interesting to accidentally bump into it than "look for it".

I'm probably more inclinded TO get hits than the average pheromone wearing male, because I'm 80%-90% oblivious, and only partially aware.

I think that "light awareness" is superior to active searching, which either leads to preprogramming results/placebo effect, or, worse, setting yourself up for failure by giving off physical cues (including microexpressions) of a ... of a... of a, well, a supplicant wanker! Supplicant "wankerism" works strongly against the pheromones, I do believe.

Last edited by MHarris; October 17th, 2005 at 05:29 PM.
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Old October 17th, 2005, 05:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

Okay, I get it, you don't like passive observing

Regarding MIXED vs. spraying on top, what if you spray the fragrance into a table spoon and then add your test mones into that table spoon to "premix". I even let the alcohol evaporate, though i don't stir up the end result, which often includes the oils from the cologne seperating into it's own little ring.

But just wondering if we premix, will that do the trick?
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Old October 17th, 2005, 05:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist
Okay, I get it, you don't like passive observing

Regarding MIXED vs. spraying on top, what if you spray the fragrance into a table spoon and then add your test mones into that table spoon to "premix". I even let the alcohol evaporate, though i don't stir up the end result, which often includes the oils from the cologne seperating into it's own little ring.

But just wondering if we premix, will that do the trick?
Hahaha. No, I don't like active observing!! (not for this)

I like being active, being normal, and passively observing. But I think your smile means you know that.

I don't think the spoon trick will work.

When you take concentrated fragrance oils, and first mix them with alcohol, they don't even smell right.

It takes a least a minute IN ADDITION to the time it takes to do a rough shaking, for it to smell even half right.

You get the full effect in about a day, and if you try to speed it up with a vibrating hot plate you can really screw it up.

With essential oils, it's even worse. It can weeks upon weeks for those to mature. I can't even begin to imagine the hell that Pheros was to create. That man deserves a gold medal.

The problem is, the molecules actually bond, fixing to other molecules, and it's NOT instant.

Using the latest pheromone technology + the latest cologne/fragrance technology from the world's most advanced fragrance lab (that has all of its own hard earned secrets) actually has a benefit to it that I sort of wish it didn't.

It doesn't make product design decisions easy at all. There's flexibility, and there's results.

A 10mcg dosage applied raw vs. a 10mcg dosage with the same diffusion characteristics of a department store fragrance is a different tiger all together. Fragrance labs have diffusion nailed down. Their secret tech really blows out your pherocloud on a whole new level. I have no idea how many years it would take me rediscover about diffusion those things which they already know, and keep under wraps.

Last edited by MHarris; October 17th, 2005 at 05:26 PM.
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Old October 17th, 2005, 05:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

Well, I can only give you my take on it, but as as user I've found diffusion to be the most important thing. It's all about getting the molecules into people's noses. That's why one can get such great hits after initially applying, as the alcohol is all evaporating, as Jasmin once pointed out.

I think users would give up flexibility with regard to scent in order to get a better working product. I'd just make it well known that the fragrance molecules bond to the pheromone molecules (?) and are an important part of creating a better product. I think people will understand, and even appreciate Diffusion Technology.

The citrus scents aren't great, they are good, as you said. They'll never offend anyone, they cover well. Most fragrances are going to be disliked by some people. This is passable. Just go with what diffuses best and explain it to consumers.
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Old October 17th, 2005, 05:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

Thanks for your thoughts. Good stuff. I appreciate it!

I hesitate to call ExperiMoners consumers, though. They're like really early adopters, or "early early adopters", considering that pheromone tech hasn't changed much in over 20 years.

Most companies haven't moved beyond the Jovan Andron model. Most of their "work" consists of thinking up ever newer, sleezier names for the same old, same old.

It seems like the typical consumers don't mind fragrances as much, which is why you see so many APC sales (and even glowing reviews of it in feedback left to ebay sellers, due to the scent alone). I'm definitely not worried about putting fragrances into "easy" consumer products.

It's the hardcore experimenters and enthusiasts I worry about for this issue. There's a lot of potential to blow pheromone experimentation up with the little kits I've worked out... just gotta do it right. I don't expect to sell many, but I want to get it right for the admittedly small crowd it'll appeal to.

It's a tough crowd.

It's always your smallest crowd that demands the most from you. A marketer would ignore them, but I'm more of an adventurer than a marketer. To me, it's the enthusiasts that provide the real research base that can drive things forward... and help push pheromone science into an actual, viable technology. I love 'em. Want to do right by them and provide the best tools possible.
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Old October 17th, 2005, 05:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

I hear you. And "consumers" felt a little wrong when I wrote it. More like "friends" since Androtics is definitely a friend to us...

On a positive, at least it would cut down experimentation with the products already out on the market. Maybe results will be better, because you're limited to just using the test kits?
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Old October 17th, 2005, 05:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist
I hear you. And "consumers" felt a little wrong when I wrote it. More like "friends" since Androtics is definitely a friend to us...

On a positive, at least it would cut down experimentation with the products already out on the market. Maybe results will be better, because you're limited to just using the test kits?
It'll help a ton, if only because nobody ever dosed before.

And, yes, diffusion is the next issue to tackle after amount. It's part and parcel of dosing.

Stopping experimentation with other products isn't really a goal of mine. While I'm not going to go promoting them, there's actually a couple I like.

Still, I can't say I don't see your point. The only reason I even saw a reason to starting this company was the lack of good product, new compounds, and the complete abscence of rhyme and reason to many that do exist. Doing this was the only way to further my pheromone hobby. We're like a car company run by racers.

I couldn't care less about some of the other products existance... but some of the marketing material does bug me. I'm sick of hearing that alcohol kills pheromones, or that X has 99.9% pure pheromones as it says right on their forged COA doctored from Sigma-Aldrich's own... or that pheromones create instant sex slaves, and make men into women and women into men, and blahblahblahalalalala

Combine that with the general feeling that pheromones are bad, and that they don't exist (figure that duality out), and I have a tough job.

All because of a big load of hucky.

It's tough to compete with complete and utter BS. You can't one up a bunch of lies. If you do, you're just a bigger liar. I'm surprised a bunch of these companies aren't busted for fraud. They should (and could) be. They've really done a superlative job of keeping this stuff back in the dark ages.

Last edited by MHarris; October 17th, 2005 at 06:02 PM.
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Old October 17th, 2005, 06:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Department store fragrances in pheromones

I once ordered a very popular as seen on tv product on TV and then like six months later received a post card saying they ran out of product. If I didn't reply on the post card, they'd send me one when more product came in stock.

Still waiting two years later.... and I know more product came in (the commericals told me). Point being, people get away with whatever.

The upside to the crap products is that how many re-orders do they get? Moreover, they draw the hardcore users in. Soooo many people in the hardcore crowd get drawn in by APC spam and then google for competitive buys. If it weren't for the big boys, people like me would not have found companies like yours.

Regarding diffusion, since we're on it, I don't understand how molecules that are light and diffuse well can carry heavy molecules that diffuse not so well. Doesn't it just make the whole thing heavier?

I've thought about this before, and I've even thought about nanohelicopter molecules believe it or not, when trying to ways to improve diffusion. Perhaps constantly applying alcohol that will evaporate would do the trick, though probably not practical.
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