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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:10 AM   #1
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Default New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Hi everyone.

After Amy returns, we'll have several new fragrances to share with everyone for testing.

There are 4 we've selected for further testing by men, and 2 we've selected for further testing by women.

Some of the ones useful for men will be usable for both pheromone odor masking for use as actual colognes.

We've asked our perfumers for aquatic oriented, Creed quality fragrances, but with better diffusion than Creed.

We don't ask for direct ripoffs (who wants a second rate clone of anything??), but we do name brand name colognes for "design theory" and design inspiration. This also lets perfumers know how much the ingredients should cost (should they reach for the soap quality musk or the truly fine fragrance musk?). I've found that if you ask for quality reminiscent of most department stores, you tend to get some truly horrible samples. By specifying you want something you could sell at Barney's, and allowing them to go far above the budget constraints most clients ask for, we get much better results.

The perfumers did a decent job here. Even though they don't quite have the diffusion characteristics I want, they're basically nice scent wise. One of these could easily be the scent of the next Ammo Cologne.

The women's ones are very basic, and will mostly be used for masking. They can be used as perfumes if your interests are in very basic fragrances (which, thankfully, many women and the men who smell them do like).

We've asked our perfumers for Comptoir Sud Pacique type design and quality. I think they did well with one and not as well with the other.

Not sure why perfumers seem to have more trouble with fragrances specified for women... we've gotten a lot of samples from a lot of perfumers, and we're not entirely thrilled quite yet. Heck, Amy has done simple mixes in the office that are better than what is often presented to us by professionals.

If the girls reading this can think of fairly simple perfume mixes that can cover pheromone odors (admittedly, most pheromones used in female products do not the objectionable odor some of the male dominant pheromones can have), while a) being likable by most women, and b) being likable by most men (or whoever your target is), then please give some suggestions.

Any specific colognes that can reach these above named goals that are now on the market can also be used as examples. I think Comptoir Sud Pacifique has a great number of these types of scents, but you may have your own ideas. I'd love to hear those ideas!

I am listening, and I will do my best to get somewhere scent-wise that's compatible with both our design goals and your own personal goals with pheromone products. My preference is actually to get you something even better scent-wise than what you can find at the department store, if at all possible.

Most of what I've been smelling at department stores these days are just... well, as many fragrance industry insiders are saying, they're fancied up laundry detergent scents. Many are "acceptable", but not really appealing. It seems they are buying from perfumers based entirely on cost, and not quality.

Let's change that trend a bit, eh? Let's work on quality first, and then figuring out what we have to do on the money end to deliver it.
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We're still at the very beginning of pheromone technology. This is a real frontier and we're all pioneers here (congratulations!)

Theories are great, but even the most scientifically sound ones can influence and distort our perception of reality. Let's remain outcome neutral, and stick as closely as possible to the "Test first, describe later" principle. Honest & accurate information is the only thing that will push pheromone technology forward.

Forum "Rules": 1) The first and most important rule of this forum, is to be kind to others, unless they first insult you personally. Remember that most people are basically good and mean well. 2) Use the same "rules" you would at a party with friends. Be kind, share and keep cool. 3) Assume the best of others, and good people will usually do the same for you. 4) Since you can't see facial expressions online, read words in an upbeat voice tone, smile when you read, and laugh whenever possible. It all helps! 5) Generalizations should be seen as conversation starters, not personal insults. 6) If you're high strung, just be aggressively nice and fiercely helpful! 7) 1 to 4% of people online are the few, true trouble makers. When kindness doesn't work, report abuses and we'll educate, limit or ban the initiating party. Let's keep the forum clean of true riff raff and sociopaths.

Commercial speech limitations: 1) If you are commercially involved in any manner (directly or indirectly) with pheromone related technologies, you must make arrangements with management before participating on this site in any fashion. 2) Sites that that directly or indirectly spam or otherwise attack this site are placed on permanent public and private ban (may not be mentioned on this site ever again by anyone, for any reason), and may be subject to both federal and civil legal prosectuion. 3) All spam is legally subject to a very real fine $250K USD per infraction, legally justified by the cost of Google Adwords. 4) In short: We're often friendly and supportive, but not to the rude or the criminal!

Please read before PMing me: I am a technologist, inventor, and developer. High volume conversation on a forum of this size will often delay my core work. I do, however, read and respond to PMs once per week and welcome constructive feedback. When PMing, please tell me upfront whether you'd like a written response, and how detailed you'd prefer it. Please route all urgent questions through the public forum. For private matters, please call (800-671-6464 in North America, or +01 425-786-2001 internationally) or submit a help desk ticket. Thank you
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Hey Micheal! It's very good to see you in action again! I hope you are doing well.

My two cents, i really like the fruity, tropical scents personally. I've found that the girls like them better as well- a scent that women like because they can relate to it- but manly enough for them to know it belongs on a man and not herself. Neroli is quite nice in this aspect. A scent in the same family would be very exciting.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 07:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

That sounds great and really looking forward to something different and better then what you have now.

I mostly own high end niche scents right now so I know what you mean about store dept scents, though there are still some good ones that I own that I think just smell great and unique enough to own, for example Dreamer, Carlos Santana, Burberry Touch (nice white musk), Body Kouros ( i got more compliments on this one then any other cologne and only cost me $22)

How about amber variety type?

Most of the ambers that I have tried smell great and have superb sillage where I mean you only need one spray and it is filling the room like Serge Luten's Ambre Sultan or Montale Blue Amber. If i use more then one spray I am in trouble in fact.




It is kind of late and can maybe go into more suggestions but really looking forward to what is coming down the road
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 11:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Thats good to hear I would like to see more natural ingredients and maybe the strength of the fragrances to be upped to millesime strength. It wood be good to smell a scent like a fresh ocean breeze on a sunny day.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 11:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Nice to hear that..
Basicly i am tired of spending 100$ for a designer cologne every month
and i will definatly give the new ones a try.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 11:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

I agree with denec, some amber scent or something "manly" woods, smokey, woody, and incense with a touch of vanilla. Something "dark," but not too basic. Something like the smell of a distant bonfire at the beach at night, something "unique."
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 11:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mco-gnv View Post
Hey Micheal! It's very good to see you in action again! I hope you are doing well.
Eh, I'm alive. Not as alive as I'd like be, but hopefully I can research and test my way out of that.

Anyway, nice to see you, too. You doing well, I hope?

Quote:
My two cents, i really like the fruity, tropical scents personally. I've found that the girls like them better as well- a scent that women like because they can relate to it- but manly enough for them to know it belongs on a man and not herself. Neroli is quite nice in this aspect. A scent in the same family would be very exciting.
Interesting.

This might be nice for summer, as well areas that remain warm for extended periods of time. Which fruits, specifically, do you like to smell on a woman?

Any perfume examples?
__________________
We're still at the very beginning of pheromone technology. This is a real frontier and we're all pioneers here (congratulations!)

Theories are great, but even the most scientifically sound ones can influence and distort our perception of reality. Let's remain outcome neutral, and stick as closely as possible to the "Test first, describe later" principle. Honest & accurate information is the only thing that will push pheromone technology forward.

Forum "Rules": 1) The first and most important rule of this forum, is to be kind to others, unless they first insult you personally. Remember that most people are basically good and mean well. 2) Use the same "rules" you would at a party with friends. Be kind, share and keep cool. 3) Assume the best of others, and good people will usually do the same for you. 4) Since you can't see facial expressions online, read words in an upbeat voice tone, smile when you read, and laugh whenever possible. It all helps! 5) Generalizations should be seen as conversation starters, not personal insults. 6) If you're high strung, just be aggressively nice and fiercely helpful! 7) 1 to 4% of people online are the few, true trouble makers. When kindness doesn't work, report abuses and we'll educate, limit or ban the initiating party. Let's keep the forum clean of true riff raff and sociopaths.

Commercial speech limitations: 1) If you are commercially involved in any manner (directly or indirectly) with pheromone related technologies, you must make arrangements with management before participating on this site in any fashion. 2) Sites that that directly or indirectly spam or otherwise attack this site are placed on permanent public and private ban (may not be mentioned on this site ever again by anyone, for any reason), and may be subject to both federal and civil legal prosectuion. 3) All spam is legally subject to a very real fine $250K USD per infraction, legally justified by the cost of Google Adwords. 4) In short: We're often friendly and supportive, but not to the rude or the criminal!

Please read before PMing me: I am a technologist, inventor, and developer. High volume conversation on a forum of this size will often delay my core work. I do, however, read and respond to PMs once per week and welcome constructive feedback. When PMing, please tell me upfront whether you'd like a written response, and how detailed you'd prefer it. Please route all urgent questions through the public forum. For private matters, please call (800-671-6464 in North America, or +01 425-786-2001 internationally) or submit a help desk ticket. Thank you
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 11:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Quote:
Originally Posted by denec View Post
That sounds great and really looking forward to something different and better then what you have now.

I mostly own high end niche scents right now so I know what you mean about store dept scents, though there are still some good ones that I own that I think just smell great and unique enough to own, for example Dreamer, Carlos Santana, Burberry Touch (nice white musk), Body Kouros ( i got more compliments on this one then any other cologne and only cost me $22)
Body Kouros is one of my few colognes for men that I like. Most people, however, would find it too dirty, too "French". Of course, if we're forced to move out of the US market for awhile, I guess a focus on "clean" scents doesn't matter too much.

I've noticed that more recent bottles of Body Kouros do not smell the same as old. They appear to have gone through a reformulation, perhaps due to changing IFRA regulations.

I'll order samples of the other ones you've mentioned.

Quote:
How about amber variety type?

Most of the ambers that I have tried smell great and have superb sillage where I mean you only need one spray and it is filling the room like Serge Luten's Ambre Sultan or Montale Blue Amber. If i use more then one spray I am in trouble in fact.
I like those two houses, but I cannot remember what either smells like. It's been quite awhile. I'll add them to my list to check out.

Aktuo is "amber" based.

I understand that amber is sort of like white chocolate. Everyone has their own interpretation of what it's supposed to smell like, and how to formulate it.

Quote:
It is kind of late and can maybe go into more suggestions but really looking forward to what is coming down the road
Our scent goals in the immediate moment are to get something that's as exciting as possible, but very acceptable to most noses. Unfortunately, the latter design criteria (acceptable to as many noses as possible) tends to be the one that drags everything down.

If we're going to survive as the economy goes haywire, we do need a high acceptability formula so we can make some sort of consumer project. Often, when it comes to fragrance, it becomes the "art" of offending the fewest people possible.

The original Ammo scent was acceptable AND interesting to quite a few people. Unfortunately, it contained substances which inhibited diffusion of a number of molecules. It made designing a compatible pheromone package very difficult, and in terms of economics... well, less diffusion = higher costs for us in terms of androgens.

On the brighter side in terms of scent, I've also been making the rounds of some of the key formulation houses, asking them to send along samples of colognes too expensive for any of the department store "fragrance houses" to sell. Real love projects where no expense is spared. That excited them.

Actually, this is kind of funny (and sad). One perfume maker said that what they've gotten lately are requests for finished fragrances that cost $6.50 per pound. Mind you, this is before it's diluted with alcohol. I didn't even know they had anything that cheap, since I had never thought about buying based on price as the primary criteria.

Can you even imagine how wretched that must smell at that cost???! No wonder so many perfumes and colognes are 80% of the same stuff ou find in detergents and fabric softeners. Galaxolide, etc.

You know, I don't think we've ever paid less than 5 or 6 times that for our least expensive "juice". Something like $30 a pound. This was one for the ladies. I wasn't overly impressed with it (smelled more like a "rough sketch" to me), but enough of the girls seemed to like it for us to carry it. Generally, I don't start seeing anything worth even considering at less than $50/lb.

The ones I really want to smell are, again, the ones too expensive for the department store brands to consider. The ones that exceed industry standard, and use truly fine compounds. Maybe we'll finally get something interesting with a request like that.

Honestly, almost nothing from the fragrance industry costs more than a well synthesized pheromone molecule... We've already built the fiscal muscles to sell the world's finest synthesis of these molecules at virtually the same price others sell Chinese, so why not use our discipline to embrace higher quality fragrances?
__________________
We're still at the very beginning of pheromone technology. This is a real frontier and we're all pioneers here (congratulations!)

Theories are great, but even the most scientifically sound ones can influence and distort our perception of reality. Let's remain outcome neutral, and stick as closely as possible to the "Test first, describe later" principle. Honest & accurate information is the only thing that will push pheromone technology forward.

Forum "Rules": 1) The first and most important rule of this forum, is to be kind to others, unless they first insult you personally. Remember that most people are basically good and mean well. 2) Use the same "rules" you would at a party with friends. Be kind, share and keep cool. 3) Assume the best of others, and good people will usually do the same for you. 4) Since you can't see facial expressions online, read words in an upbeat voice tone, smile when you read, and laugh whenever possible. It all helps! 5) Generalizations should be seen as conversation starters, not personal insults. 6) If you're high strung, just be aggressively nice and fiercely helpful! 7) 1 to 4% of people online are the few, true trouble makers. When kindness doesn't work, report abuses and we'll educate, limit or ban the initiating party. Let's keep the forum clean of true riff raff and sociopaths.

Commercial speech limitations: 1) If you are commercially involved in any manner (directly or indirectly) with pheromone related technologies, you must make arrangements with management before participating on this site in any fashion. 2) Sites that that directly or indirectly spam or otherwise attack this site are placed on permanent public and private ban (may not be mentioned on this site ever again by anyone, for any reason), and may be subject to both federal and civil legal prosectuion. 3) All spam is legally subject to a very real fine $250K USD per infraction, legally justified by the cost of Google Adwords. 4) In short: We're often friendly and supportive, but not to the rude or the criminal!

Please read before PMing me: I am a technologist, inventor, and developer. High volume conversation on a forum of this size will often delay my core work. I do, however, read and respond to PMs once per week and welcome constructive feedback. When PMing, please tell me upfront whether you'd like a written response, and how detailed you'd prefer it. Please route all urgent questions through the public forum. For private matters, please call (800-671-6464 in North America, or +01 425-786-2001 internationally) or submit a help desk ticket. Thank you
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 12:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Something that will last, and last would also be good MHarris. Game lasts for a bit, but eventually it also dies down pretty fast (to me at least.) So if it can be something with good silage and lasting power that'll be awesome, I mean might as well have a good lasting cologne with your pheromone product as well. So like that it'll be like hitting two birds with one stone, you get your awesome pheromone product, while also getting a good quality lasting cologne and scent.

The scent the first Raw Power test "goof" pack came in which if I remember correctly was 5% Game smells REALLY good. I know the distinct/unique smell was because of the musks (or pheromones) in the MX 's but it sure smells good and I also got/get a lot of compliments from it.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 12:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Quote:
Originally Posted by idle View Post
Nice to hear that..
Basicly i am tired of spending 100$ for a designer cologne every month
and i will definatly give the new ones a try.
Well, the 4 I'm talking about wouldn't be as "unique" as some designer fragrances.

I don't consider Creed to be an overly unique brand, per se. (with some exceptions--- they do have very fine juices, that are very unique indeed)

Mostly, with their best selling colognes, I just consider Creed to be at the high end of "very acceptable" brands. That's why I asked for them to be considered for design inspiration. For something like Ammo or a professional work product, I want to reach the higher end of "very acceptable". The high end of "normal", you might say.

I did make a more recent request that we be sent samples of perfumers love projects that have sat on the shelves, unloved by design houses due to economic reasons. We'll see what that request yields.
__________________
We're still at the very beginning of pheromone technology. This is a real frontier and we're all pioneers here (congratulations!)

Theories are great, but even the most scientifically sound ones can influence and distort our perception of reality. Let's remain outcome neutral, and stick as closely as possible to the "Test first, describe later" principle. Honest & accurate information is the only thing that will push pheromone technology forward.

Forum "Rules": 1) The first and most important rule of this forum, is to be kind to others, unless they first insult you personally. Remember that most people are basically good and mean well. 2) Use the same "rules" you would at a party with friends. Be kind, share and keep cool. 3) Assume the best of others, and good people will usually do the same for you. 4) Since you can't see facial expressions online, read words in an upbeat voice tone, smile when you read, and laugh whenever possible. It all helps! 5) Generalizations should be seen as conversation starters, not personal insults. 6) If you're high strung, just be aggressively nice and fiercely helpful! 7) 1 to 4% of people online are the few, true trouble makers. When kindness doesn't work, report abuses and we'll educate, limit or ban the initiating party. Let's keep the forum clean of true riff raff and sociopaths.

Commercial speech limitations: 1) If you are commercially involved in any manner (directly or indirectly) with pheromone related technologies, you must make arrangements with management before participating on this site in any fashion. 2) Sites that that directly or indirectly spam or otherwise attack this site are placed on permanent public and private ban (may not be mentioned on this site ever again by anyone, for any reason), and may be subject to both federal and civil legal prosectuion. 3) All spam is legally subject to a very real fine $250K USD per infraction, legally justified by the cost of Google Adwords. 4) In short: We're often friendly and supportive, but not to the rude or the criminal!

Please read before PMing me: I am a technologist, inventor, and developer. High volume conversation on a forum of this size will often delay my core work. I do, however, read and respond to PMs once per week and welcome constructive feedback. When PMing, please tell me upfront whether you'd like a written response, and how detailed you'd prefer it. Please route all urgent questions through the public forum. For private matters, please call (800-671-6464 in North America, or +01 425-786-2001 internationally) or submit a help desk ticket. Thank you
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