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Old August 4th, 2009, 03:17 PM   #51
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Quote:
Originally Posted by xev View Post
I think a simple sweet vanilla fragrance is great to cover cops.
You're in luck. That's exactly what's coming up.

I figure that something minty might be ideal to cover malodorous pheromones on men, and something vanilla for women.

These both seem to cover what they need to cover for their respective sexes. They both have that rare quality of being well liked by many, but also highly acceptable. Mint gum is by far #1, and vanilla is well liked by almost all due to associations with the scent of a nursing mother's breastmilk. (I didn't even nurse, and I still respond well to vanilla -- perhaps a genetic tendency)

Quote:
Honestly, I wouldn't want anything to strong or overpowering as I prefer to put my own perfume over pheros and cops anyway.
I wouldn't, either. Most of the molecules useful for women don't have much a negative odor association. There's really not much to "cover".

The way we have things set up now, both the odor masking agents and diffusion package are combined into one. That means if we increase the amount of one, we increase the other.

What I'm currently doing is working on (or trying to work on) my own in-house diffusion package. Something simple without too much of a nitro or nitro-like scent.

That way the diffusion package and scent package will be modular and independent.

For "final" product, we can use more diffusion package, and only as much "cover scent" as necessary. For most women's products, they're barely necessary. Which is not say that I wouldn't like to offer a pheromone perfume, if it was possible.

I'd actually like to see better executed versions of some of the things we have now, at least out of curiosity. Most of what we've been sent for women seem to be like "rough sketches" compared to what the perfumers produce for men. I don't know why that is, but I'd sure like to see the opposite of that. I'd like to see (or smell, rather) more thought, more finesse put into women's fragrances.

One of the vanillas we have does smell well executed, more or less. I'm guessing it'll have 70 to 80% acceptability, with suggestions from the 20 to 30% who'll reject it on how to modify the vanilla to make it more to their liking. (there's many ways to create a vanilla scent)

The other vanilla smells more like what a younger girl would wear in a vanilla based lotion. I almost rejected that one, but then we'd only have 1 to test out of the ridiculous number of samples I've been sent and been truly disappointed with. It's truly nearly as bad as it could be.

Some people might like the "younger" smell, actually, just like certain older folks flocked to Pepsi when they started advertising themselves as "the choice of the younger generation". I don't mean to involve advertising in this, I mean that many people have a young identity. For those that don't want to grow up, certain scents can really take us back. Scent memory seems to affect changes in feelings related to identity.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 03:45 PM   #52
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

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Originally Posted by SCoupe View Post
For UNIQUENESS my advice would be to avoid the dept store frag's and get yourself some samples of relatively exotic items from the perfumed court or luckyscent to use as benchmarks.
Well, the idea behind going to department stores is to smell what's popular, because what's popular is what's acceptable. It's a useful form of information for me.

Unfortunately, what's acceptable at the moment is almost exclusively repulsive, especially now that I've been training my nose, slowbly but surely, to identify the various chemicals used.

Not all department stores are the same, of course. Nordstrom doesn't treat women too badly. They have a few nice scents. Saks has more. I like the Barney's fragrance counter the most out of the big department stores.

Not near a Barneys now (or am I? I haven't even checked), but I'm near one of the America's most unique fragrance stores.

Even there, though, I still don't know women like, or what most women find acceptable. I might find scent I like, but not all woman will like I like. Women really seem to like wearing things they enjoy for their own pleasure. Goes straight to their self esteem, which then dresses up their attitude.

Quote:
One of the things you could do is try to replicate both the scent and effect of two of the holy grails which are just about impossible to find :
Andron by Jovan & Dolce Gabbana's By Man
Our primary fragrance house, which makes almost everything you smell from us now, actually made Andron. They will not replicate anything (it'd be bad business), but they can certainly use a fragrance as a design inspiration. What, in particular, do you like about Andron that you'd like to see in a new fragrance?

By, I believe, was pulled from the market due to toxicity of one or more of the components. Must have been an important component to pull it like that. I think I still have a bottle in a storage somewhere. What aspects do you like most about it?

More importantly, what are the effects of these that you'd like to see duplicated (or especially, improved upon)? Effects are more up my alley.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 03:47 PM   #53
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Here is another scent i forgot to mention.
I am long time lover of OLD SPICE (original)
and Old Spice White Water.

i found the notes (in the original):
Top Notes: Orange, Lemon, Spices, Clary Sage, Aldehydes.
Middle Notes: Cinnamon, Carnation, Geranium, Jasmine, Heliotrope, Pimento Berry.
Base Notes: Vanilla, Musk, Cedarwood, Frankincense, Benzoin, Tonka, Ambergris

but some people doesnt find old spice that attractive.
I got multiple responses. one say they love it.. and the others dont.
Its a strong hate or love no middle emotions to this scent

i personally love all their products that are based on the classic / original scent
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Old August 4th, 2009, 04:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

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Originally Posted by xev View Post
Are you wanting constructive comments on your current women's scents?
Yes, but you don't limit yourself to what we currently carry. You can also feel free to criticize our ideas for new perfumes, or even who we use as design inspiration.

Quote:
Neroli is okay. I don't love it as a fragrance, but it disappears to my nose after dry down so its mostly neutral, which is good. It doesn't clash with other things I like to wear. However, I did smell an older version of instant sexiness + 5X cops once, and while the smell of synthetic cops doesn't bother me, the neroli combined with the cops was really nauseating. So, when you get cops products again, I would say neroli won't be the best scent for that.
Hopefully, we won't have to use foul smelling copulins. The ultimate idea is to replicate the healthy aroma (i.e., without yeast or other infections) of an actual human female during ovulation, not the aroma of peroxidized salad dressing.

The cleaner the aroma is, the less mask it'll need.

Quote:
I like the choclatini quite a bit, and I like whatever is in mx274 (cookie +grapefruit?). I would certainly like to see both of these scents stay, and even for the mx274 one to become a custom option to add to other products. I haven't smelled the plain cookie or the coconut scents.
Interesting. Thanks for that.

I think MX274 may be a hybrid Amy made, yes.

I'd actually like to see better executed versions of what we currently have for women, if possible. I think something like Chocolatini is a nice draft that could be improved upon drastically with a good v2.0. A version that uses higher end fragrance compounds, and is gelled together with the proper musks.

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Now, in terms of what you might bring in in the future, I'm not sure I will be much help. You see, designer perfumes really make me sick and give me a headache. I can't even stand to be in the same room with those magazine insert fragrance ads. It doesn't really matter how expensive the fragrance is. There is something very commonly added that I just can't stand. It gives me a headache and a stomach ache.
Aha, you're getting the stomach thing, too?

While I'm training my nose with specific fragrance chemicals, I can serve the dual purpose of noting what specific chemical(s) might be causing the stomach type reactions (and other unwanted responses, like nausea). I could then send these out to a larger test group, see if it's unique to me, or if many respond the same way.

Heck, maybe I could use an SEMG sensor as a tool for third party validation.

The headache thing... that's been studied quite a bit already. I can already guess at which chemicals might be doing that, but I'l certainly note head feelings as I continue to train on individual molecules. I'll try to avoid them in any formulation I make myself. Headache is often one of the clearest and particular signs of toxicity. It's wise to avoid anything that causes them.

There's also quite a few EEG scans taken using major perfuming chemicals as stimulus. I'll equally try to avoid anything that makes your brain's energy output resemble that of a potato.

I happen to like brains. I want to see more of them function, and function well.

Quote:
I really can only wear oil based artisan perfumes like BPAL, and essential oils. With respect to those, I don't like most florals too much (except jasmine and gardenia) and I don't like patchouli or headshop/incensy smelling stuff. I mostly go for scents that are vanilla, sweet, and/or fruit based. Musks are good too, and amber so long as they are not overpowering.
More votes for vanilla and fruit.

Amber, too. Gosh, I love amber in scents myself, even though it's impossible to look up whatever amber is supposed to be, or a standard "amber accord". Maybe the name alone is making us hallucinate some note that doesn't exist, yet we all somehow know. Archetypical voodoo.

Quote:
My biggest fear would be that you would change all your products so that they smell like all the department store fragrances I can't wear.
I wouldn't do something like that.

I make the differentiation between a scent/diffusion package that's used out of necessity and a perfume, much like I make the differentiation for men between the scent/diffusion package and pheromone colognes.

Most of the general products are pheromones you can use for just about any application, which is why we use a citrus odor mask, combined with a diffusion package.

On the other hand, something like Ammo is, specifically, a pheromone cologne. i.e., a cologne that happens to have pheromones added. Something that's supposed to have a complex, actual department store cologne type scent. (and I finally have some scents that could serve to properly replace the original)

What I'm also doing now is trying to personally develop an in-house diffusion package. This will allow me to have modular control over the diffusion package:scent mask ratio.

Once successful, this will allow us to have products that are as low scent as possible, while still maintaining as good or better diffusion than with the Neroli combination mask/diffusion package we use now.

I think I'm going to move in the direction of a mint malodor mask for men, and a vanilla mask for women.

The mask for women could be used at much lower concentration than the mask for men's products, since it tends to almost exclusively be male pheromones which cause odor problems. Both male and female pheromones, on the other hand, tend to need quite a few diffusion enhancers.

Most of our body scents are not meant to travel nearly as far as the scent of say, a deer. You can barely even smell an unwashed hobo, unless they are truly close to you. Androgen based human scents really benefit from a little help.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

I think for women's fragrances, vanilla is always going to be a big hit. It's obvioulsy got a big bonus with being really good at covering cops too, but I think most women like vanilla in some form. It doesn't have to be foody, sickly sweet or overwhelming I also love it when it's mixed with other scents...white musk and vanilla is lovely, and that's a relatively neutral scent that you can wear on it's own or with other scents.

Amber, oh yes! I have to put my vote for that one too. I love amber! And other musk notes

I think florals might be difficult... Floral scents are very personal, what one woman absolutely loves then other one can't stand. I'm a sucker for violet and rose scents, but that's not for everyone. I'm also not a big fan of overly floral scents...I think neroli is as neutral as you can probably get with florals, I'm not a huge fan, but I also don't dislike it. And I think it's a good one as a "base-scent" for non-stinky phero's because it's easy to cover, if you don't like neroli it can easily be layered with your favourite perfume.

If you combine a light floral with a musk and/or vanilla base though that could be nice.

I'm not sure about fruity scents...They have a tendency to be quite overwhelming and sickly sweet. Now I do loooove my vanilla, but even I find Pink Sugar quite overpowering. I certainly can't wear it to work. Most pure fruit scents I find horrendous... they are way too sweet and "fake" smelling, they often smell more like candy than fruit

In terms of the scents that are currently available I'm ok with neroli as I can cover it with my regular perfume, and it's not too bad on it's own, to me it's a bit like CK One.

I really like Mx274 which I think is a mix of grapefruit and chocolate chip cookies. I don't particularly like the grapefruit but once that fades the Mx274 is lovely.

I quite like chocolatini too, but not for work. It's awesome to layer with vanilla scents though for going out.

Pure grapefruit and the new coconut one I haven't tried yet
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Old August 4th, 2009, 05:55 PM   #56
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

M .... Lemme take a shot item by item with a little personal opinion thrown in which you can discount @ will. ONE of the things I could suggest right off the bat is to join the Basenotes community @ Basenotes.net. If you aren't already familiar with it - you will find a worldwide group who is just interested in perfumes, colognes & edt's very much like PheroTalk family.
Lots & lots of very good information there. A word of caution - DO NOT mention that you're involved with pheromones - you'll be gang raped.

The flip side of that potential is - if you became involved over time you could conceivably 'turn' some of the non-believers into the light. IF that ever happened - your sales would absolutely skyrocket. I'm just sayin - it's worth checking out. Sales are sales and money is money, like it or not that's the basis of running a business. Otherwise it's a hobby. It MAY be TMI but here goes.

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Well, the idea behind going to department stores is to smell what's popular, because what's popular is what's acceptable. It's a useful form of information for me. I understand this in terms of useful info but I feel - based on your next comment - that you're beginning to see that popular doesn't always stand the test of time. It usually means not much more than a very good marketing campaign (Angel for example) then the lemmings jump on board and a legend is born .... for a while. A little harsh I know but sometimes a rancid lil jus is just SOLD and word of mouth seems to justify the hype.

Unfortunately, what's acceptable at the moment is almost exclusively repulsive, especially now that I've been training my nose, slowbly but surely, to identify the various chemicals used.

Not all department stores are the same, of course. Nordstrom doesn't treat women too badly. They have a few nice scents. Saks has more. I like the Barney's fragrance counter the most out of the big department stores. I suggested The Perfumed Court as an example of probably the best place to obtain niche, vintage & innocuous little colognes and perfumes - from the past and present -from around the world mainly as a way to help with your research. IFRA regs & a few other reasons have caused quite a few reformulations of well known & respected frags from the largest houses to the smallest. Obviously you won't be able to satisfy everyone's taste but there are some common threads - componentwise - in the classics that make them classic.

Not near a Barneys now (or am I? I haven't even checked), but I'm near one of the America's most unique fragrance stores. You are very close to LuckyScent for sure but don't know if that's the one you meant. They carry quite a lot of the higher end units. The only Barneys I use is located in SF - which isn't LA obviously but close enough I suppose. I just use that one most because of a relationship I struck up with a sales associate there who helps me track certain things down. She's into it and knows how to go about locating it is the main reason. She functions as sort of a personal shopper from time to time.

I agree that Barneys is probably @ the top of the list - in terms of having a large selection - followed by Neimans with Saks bringing up the rear but still a pretty good selection.

Even there, though, I still don't know women like, or what most women find acceptable. I might find scent I like, but not all woman will like I like. Women really seem to like wearing things they enjoy for their own pleasure. Goes straight to their self esteem, which then dresses up their attitude. My personal experience seems to say that quite a few women like anything Vanilla - still after all these years. Can't say that I blame them because I too am off on a vanilla jag and believe it will likely remain a standard for quite a while longer.
I'm also seeing quite a few ladies who are into leather (the lighter less harsh varieties such as Hermes Bel Ami) and incense based scents as well. Lightly fruity (peach & blackberry as examples) and of course floral in the FlowerBomb vein.

But you are correct by saying that women TRULY do wear what they wear because they just like it - but that also applies to both genders. Regardless, I think we all utilize fragrance in very much the same way we use your 'mones. We can create a mood - @ least between our own two ears - enhance an existing mood or 'steer' a mood to the desired end.

Our primary fragrance house, which makes almost everything you smell from us now, actually made Andron. They will not replicate anything (it'd be bad business), but they can certainly use a fragrance as a design inspiration. What, in particular, do you like about Andron that you'd like to see in a new fragrance? The biggest thing about Andron was the effect. It REALLY did seem to have an edge to it that helped in the dating scene. Possibly or maybe I should say 'reportedly' due to the fact that the scent was laced with pheromone (none in particular). Quite a few of the members here are already replicating that 'effect' by layering your products and also 'spiking' our frags with a competitors product. The point I'm making is that combining pheromones with colognes or perfumes appears to STILL be a valid market. The marketing of a NEW holy grail would most likely have to be an underground word of mouth sort of expedition tho - else the product would probably take a real beating from the naysayers + here we go with the subversive 'mind control' nutballs. You get the picture.

By, I believe, was pulled from the market due to toxicity of one or more of the components. Must have been an important component to pull it like that. I think I still have a bottle in a storage somewhere. What aspects do you like most about it?
D&G's By Man, however, seems to be the 'real deal'. It's just a very nice scent which used a good bit of real sandalwood, guaiacwood, nutmeg and amber that a good many women just love. It comes across as comforting and something some of 'em just wanna get close to. Something about it seems to provide a little 'edge' as well but I've never heard any urban legend about pheromones being part of the mix. I guess it rests at that breaking point where thoughts are ' I really wanna go there but should I ? Could I ? & what if I did' ?' You're into effect - how's that for ya ? The 'effect' is like most things and hovers around possibilities, but that's where the good stuff is - 'whatcha gonna do with it now that ya may have found it' sort of thing. I have no clue why it was pulled from the market so will be no good to you on that one.

More importantly, what are the effects of these that you'd like to see duplicated (or especially, improved upon)? Effects are more up my alley.

Last edited by SCoupe; August 5th, 2009 at 03:57 AM.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 11:51 PM   #57
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Hi Mike, I hope you're feeling a little better and that Jasmin is coming around the bend with her troubles. I wish you both the best.

It's great that there will be new scents and that you want our input. I'm looking forward to them but right now there are more pressing matters that need your input.

Here -

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-pheromone-advice-tricks-tips/100-ps-panty-scorcher-mx331-334-a-33622.html

and here -

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/womens-journals/dianes-copulin-formulations-testers-thread-33457-6.html


Please, Michael, your friends and customers are waiting to hear from you.

Bella
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Old August 5th, 2009, 04:43 AM   #58
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Honey is nice and is great at covering cops also.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 05:14 AM   #59
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Oooh I love honey! good call Niatalya!
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Old August 5th, 2009, 04:53 PM   #60
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Default Re: New fragrances coming -- your input wanted on future scents

Floral
top note night blooming jasmine,tuberose
Mid note Lavender and sugar
base notes sweet pear and amber

Tropical
Guava,mango,strawberry.Frangipani and coconut.

Spicy\warm

Cinnamon,nutmeg,clove w a rosewood/sandalwood;leather+amber or tobacco+amber base.

Cool\Refreshing.

Sweet mint w sugar and a hint of Phillipine lime and fresh grass.

My very strange two cents on the matter.

Oh and I'm with the other girls on the honey.
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