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Old January 25th, 2018, 03:00 AM   #1
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Default We're temporarily shutting down Androtics Direct

Hi guys,

Unfortunately, one of the oldest people we use that oversees product formulation at the ship center experienced a medical emergency late last year directly during the Christmas holiday.

She was placed on anti medication on 12/29, which worked to stabilize her for awhile and allowed her to continue to work, albeit more slowly.

Unfortunately, her condition worsened she recently and was given an additional medication. She is scheduled for an MRI next week to better see what?s going on.

The single anti seizure medication gave her fatigue and made her slower. Sadly, the new combination of drugs only worsens this.

The only veterans we now have left are with core product formulation, which near the Seattle area. They do the most precise weighing and make our product ?concentrates?. Then there?s Dee, who?s an offshore worker who helps with the forum and now customer service.

As mentioned in another thread, Mickaelia, our customer service lead, had her home and community destroyed in the hurricanes last year, so we?ve sadly lost her at this time, as well. (In fact, we?re constantly worried about her as we do not hear from her very often. All we have to go off of is the news.)

The two new employees in fulfillment are now trained enough to handle normal ?off the shelf? products, but they are not prepared to handle the large variety of scenarios Androtics Direct can handle.

As you can see on the top right corner of Androtics Direct, even with the bulk of SKUs set to 0 quantity, it still says we have ?73,255? products available. That is literally how many possible product variations exist that you can order from the few SKUs we still have available. This was former near a half million ?products?? before we turned off the bulk of SKUs.

As you might imagine, this can be quite overwhelming for new hires. They cannot handle this complexity alone. This is an operation that depends greatly on the wisdom of people who?ve worked with us for quite awhile.

As it?s an old cart, there is no way to turn off variations and keep the off the shelf versions. We could edit out the variations themselves, leaving just 1 option for a SKU, but then we?d break all order history functionality. Catch-22!

This is a major reason why, when we return as Androtics Lab, it will be on a completely new technology platform.

Please understand that while normal online retail shops are easier to run that ever, Direct is not a normal retail operation whatsoever. It is enormously complex to run, only more-so after having to move late last year, which caused the loss of 3 of our veterans in fulfillment, Jacob, Zach, and Luke. Of course, we also lost out fantastic new assistant Mark. They now pursue other opportunities in LA.

Therefore, we will be temporarily closing down Androtics Direct, and slowly but surely working away any backlog. Our fulfillment vet will still be working on the creation and fulfillment of not so off the shelf SKU variations.

Although this is one of those rare times in a company?s history, we have always made good on everything. If you have an outstanding order we 100% intend to fulfill it. We just ask that you kindly extend some patience given the circumstances.

I want to make it clear this will never be a ?kickstarter? type scenario. Even at our worst, we seem to do better even properly funded companies there. Orders are going out daily, just much more slowly than we?d like. Orders with off the shelf products have been no issue at all.

The only issue with off the shelf orders is that we must manually scan orders to figure which ones contain them. Our veteran knows the products like the back of her hand, while the new hires obviously do not. They look basically the same on the receipt. So with the current technology platform Direct runs on, our fulfillment veteran must perform this function herself. The good news is that after she does, the off the shelf SKUs go out right away. Again, it?s the more than 70k variants that is causing a bottleneck.

Before Christmas time, we had the peak order fulfillment rate up to a maximum of 60 packages a day, is approximately half of what we did in LA. Not too bad, but this has been slowed as our only fulfillment and shipping veteran left can only work in spurts.

Once the backlog is at 0, we hope to come back not with Androtics Direct, but with the replacement site we?ve been working on called Androtics Lab.

The intention is to use a site with 2018 based technology to streamline and reduce the costs of operations. Labs will carry on many of the ?wholesale to the public? traditions Direct did, but exclusively for people who?ve provided the best feedback over the years. It will not be generally open to the public as Direct was. That early to mid 2000s concept doesn?t make sense anymore in 2018.

We had a few great new products we wanted to excitedly introduce for New Years, but that will be on hold, too. We may be able to launch them through a partner retail site (an outside marketer has been working on the main retail Androtics site), but I cannot make any promises at this time. The new sites are not our complete control. Only Androtics Lab will be.

If you choose to buy anything from Androtics Direct now, we will honor the old prices, but I warn you it may take some time to fulfill.

If you need fast fulfillment and are mostly consumer oriented, I suggest you wait for our more commercial oriented sites. If you are an enthusiast, I recommend you wait for Androtics Lab, which still happen when our fulfillment veteran gets back up to speed. We?d especially like to see Mickaelia?s condition improve, as well.

The only advice I can give is that the default products are usually ?off the shelf?. If you?d select any variations at all, this usually creates a custom order process. It is not the off the shelf products that are a problem. Off the shelf products have the simplest creation to fulfillment path.

Thank you for your understanding,
Brian & the old and new crew of AD
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Old January 25th, 2018, 03:02 AM   #2
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Default Where's Waldo? Or, rather, where's Brian?

While I?ve told some people this privately, let me say it publicly so I can avoid the repetition.

I worked at Androtics Direct on a part time basis daily for over a year. It was fascinating company where I got to meet many brilliant people.

However, like all of my coworkers in LA, our living expenses were going up enormously, we needed to ask for more and more money. Getting older, I wanted to make an even higher salary that went above ?cost of living? increases, and Direct could not provide it.

Since Direct started, input costs have risen 4x. Enough to topple most businesses alone. Labor has gone up 2-3 times, and even more for highly skilled labor. Real estate has gone completely mad along the entire west coast. 3-18x is the norm.

Software has gone form being a ?once in a lifetime? $2k purchase to $2k a month. What we paid for Kayako help desk once became a monthly bill with ZenDesk. One ?software as a service? feedback platform we used even felt the $500 a month they charged us wasn?t enough. They changed it 5x overnight. I?m not sure the new breed of Silicon Valley companies can be trusted, honestly. With them changing hands for billions of dollars, obviously they?re going to have eventually charge us little guys for the ?privilege? of making other people billionaires!

All together, these are enormous changes for a company that uses pricing models from a decade ago on the bulk of it?s SKUs.

This affects other manufacturers, too. Obviously most American manufacturers have gone out of business for a reason. Even at a time more people have wanted to ?buy American?, the costs of doing business in America are so drastically different than Asia, it usually makes it infeasible.

There?s a website called that tries to cover the real cost of inflation. It has it?s own failings. I don?t think it actually show just incredible the inflation on the west coast is, but at least they show sometihk.g

It was made by a man working for an American airplane manufacturer. All of a sudden, they found they could not use government published stats to rely upon for their business, and had to figure out other models.

?One of my early clients was a large manufacturer of commercial airplanes, who had developed an econometric model for predicting revenue passenger miles.*The level of revenue passenger miles was their primary sales forecasting tool, and the model was heavily dependent on the GNP (now GDP) as reported by the Department of Commerce. *Suddenly, their model stopped working, and they asked me if I could fix it.*I realized the GNP numbers were faulty, corrected them for my client (official reporting was similarly revised a couple of years later) and the model worked again, at least for a while, until GNP methodological changes eventually made the underlying data worthless. ?

The ultimate outcome of that work is Not perfect, but something that gets closer to the day to day truth of doing business in America.

There are also numerous people who write articles about the real costs of inflation, such as these two excellent ones from Business Insider:
Burrito prices show problem with inflation measurements - Business Insider
If people knew the actual inflation rate, it would crash the economy - Business Insider

Again, I don?t think he adequately shows just how much worse inflation is on the west coast vs other parts of America, either. But it?s still a good read.

If we could only live in the official fictions published. But we don?t. We live and operate in the real world, where things are almost always worse. No, it?s not as bad as Venezuela or anything. I pray for those people. However, it?s far worse than official stats let on. It?s just like how you cannot buy or rent a house for anything near the official statistics on By the time those ?stats? are even published, they are stale fictions.

That?s why Direct has had to depend on loans, as well as financial gifts from it?s founder to continue. Labs will be no different, although hopefully optimized to be less of a resource burden.

Losing our affordable working space is Los Angeles was a sudden and unwanted financial burden. After more than a decade there we had a mere 30 days to look. We looked locally, and could only find a space in ?downtown LA? for several times higher. Current employees would not even be able to get there. So we looked all over the west coast. Decided on the most reasonable option available, but even this is a multiple of what we used to pay. Real estate rates really have gone crazy everywhere in the west.

I cannot find any easy reads or videos about the costs of west coast commercial real estate exploding, but I?ve found this video called ?Million Dollar Shack? about the housing bubble:

The above documentary explains it nicely. At almost the 8:07 minute mark**you?ll see how one lady?s rent went from $2k per mont to $8900 in one year. Much more than the ?moderate? 70% per year increases elsewhere or the extremely reasonable 55.26% jump seen in Cupertino apartments in from January to May (3:54). The condo featured in the film actually has asbestos contamination.

At 14:36, one couple, where the wife works at Synopsis and the husband works at Google, explains that even tech giants like Google have trouble offering enough money to allow people that don?t already live there to buy or rent a place.

You?d think that Google, which has been one of the primary companies to disrupt the entire economy of the west coast, would be the one that could still afford to hire, but no... as she says ?it?s hard to hire people if they?re not from here because they try to find a place to live and they can?t afford it?

Even prices in Seattle, where we looked to escaped the price avalanche, suddenly went up after we leased our first commercial space there.

This happened during the time that Amazon bought a significant part of the downtown area and a new minimum wage was merely announced. These two ?signals? in the market made everything go crazy. Within a month, real estate prices just doubled all over central and east Seattle. They?re ever higher now.

When even well paid Google workers must appeal to their parents to help buy them a $100k house for $2m, you know we are in a serious financial bubble. While Silicon Valley is the epicenter, this is sending waves of increases through the entire west coast. Everything from San Diego to Seattle is affected. People are even going east, affecting prices there in Colorado and other areas, too.

Obviously the same things have happened to commercial real estate. What?s worse is that we?ve seen extra strange requests for commercial that wouldn?t even be legal for non-commercial residents. Things like a 10 month rent advance. Wacky, wacky stuff.

You must understand the Androtics started selling through other shops in either 2002 or 2003, and Androtics Direct was created in 2005, I believe. Direct switched from Asian sourced material to all US & European laboratory sourced material. A bold move. It offered the highest grade compounds at nearly Chinese pricing, which is like selling gold for silver rates.

The bottom line is that it uses systems and a pricing from a bygone era, where many orders actually create a financial deficit. It literally is partly a charity operation, with the charity portion growing over time.

Unlike other tech companies, it does not have the types of off the hook investments many app companies do.

As prices on literally everything have gone up around us, it was a great burden on a system designed for mid-2000s realities.

That?s why I decided to (mostly) move on. Like so many on the forum that used Androtics tech to get high end jobs, I did, too.

I believe in what Androtics Direct does, but we all need ever increasing amounts of money to live. That is why I am now solely a freelance hired communicator. The company I work for full time pays the bills, and helping out every now and again at AD makes me feel good that I am helping to create the future.

That?s the long and the short of that. I hope that explains why I?m not on chat or other channels as I used to be. Mostly I listen, observe, write up the proper message, send it, and that?s the entirety of my involvement.

Maybe I can be hired on for more if retail operations work well with the consumer market.

Thanks for your understanding,

Last edited by Brian F; January 25th, 2018 at 03:23 AM.
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Old January 25th, 2018, 03:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: We're temporarily shutting down Androtics Direct

With 6 of our longer timers down, that seems like quite a pickle to be in. It is.

But ironically, the remaining people are still optimistic here.


Yes, first off, we can hopefully get 2 of those long timers back, and rebuild from there. That?s a big thing to be happy about.

But there?s another reason...

... It?s because at least we?ve (mostly) ditched ?drama queen? city of LA.

A cool place to test formulas, to be sure, but not such a great place to have any sort of non-movie business.

I personally live in LA now. There?s usually at least one really strange thing a day that shouldn?t occur. It is a weird place to live and work.

Jacob loved riding his bike to work, for example. I can no longer even count the number of times he was hit.

We?ve had a FedEx manager refuse international packages because ?they?re just too hard to do?.

Both DHL and FedEx would sometimes just forget their routes, or even ?forget? nearby drop boxes.

Some USPS locations would just let mail stack up outside like a scene from the movie Idiocracy.

Hiring new people was too often like trying to hire a cloud. The level of flakiness in LA can be off the charts. That?s why we had to do anything to keep the good people we had.

The city has it?s charms. I still find it to be a very cool city personally, but in some ways it can be a C level comedy-horror movie.

So it?s ultimately good for everyone that Androtics Direct move and rebooot. It will take new people quite a long time to earn the knowledge older ones did. But I don?t think anywhere in the US is quite as difficult to operate as LA is.

A cool city that?s really tough on businesses.
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Old January 25th, 2018, 03:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: We're temporarily shutting down Androtics Direct

To everyone who has been dutifully sticking by us during this very difficult transitionary period, you have our utmost gratitude.

Thank you.
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Old January 26th, 2018, 05:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: We're temporarily shutting down Androtics Direct

Originally Posted by Jackalhead View Post
I suggest that you all move the new business out here to Pocatello, Idaho. The cost of living is dirt cheap - best ever. I'd be willing to help out working part time for you on top of my normal day job.
You are a boss. Thank you for the tip!

So Idaho is probably not as vulnerable to the winds of change as the west coast, eh? I?ve heard of Californians moving en masse to Boise, in particular. That tends to move the price bubble may move, as well.

We tend to stick to very high population or even tourist areas, as our own testing requires a large set of diverse strangers. We even get into trouble if there?s traces of tests left over when we visit our favorite grocery stores. It creates some very unusual relationships

Even still, it?s something to keep in mind. We have considered places middle America like Nebraska, as well, as they seem far more sensible than the coast.

For our particular type of business, though, New York and New Jersey actually have more of the physical resources we need to outsource some of our work. That?s probably one of the easiest places to do our type of work, but of course, those areas are as prone to runaway inflation as the west coast.

Again though, we?ll keep it in mind. People in Idaho are certainly sincere and hardworking. The Boise Fry company is also a gem

Thanks again for your kindness! That will never be overlooked.

Originally Posted by AlboGuy18 View Post
Hi Brian,

Can you please give me an update on when my order that was placed three months ago is going to be shipped? Last email I heard back on was 2 months ago and Dee informed me it would be shipped that week. It was not.
Thanks for bringing it up, and I'm sorry it took us so long to respond.

Being so shortstaffed, we are having difficulty keeping our efforts focused. The same very few people must read and respond to tickets, make and produce product, and pick and pack orders. To help with the overwhelm, we consulted and briefly hired an ex-Zappos veteran to help us smooth through the harder parts of the backlog. But, since Zappos fulfillment and the complexities of ours are so vastly different, even an industry veteran couldn't help us sort it out.

Androtics Direct is a legacy cart with a very complex fulfillment system. Additionally, many of the products must be made to order, or in small quantities to release several orders. *ANYTHING* that contributes complexity to an order makes it *that* much harder for us to fulfill.

This includes tickets. As well as he tries to keep everyone in the loop, Dee isn't on the floor at the factory, so he isn't always 100% certain of what we do and don't have in stock. We also don't have realtime stock keeping. We look forward to having those all very soon!

Originally Posted by Charmer_50 View Post
Thank You for the update Brian. As I was telling Dee via my ticket, it would be very helpful if there was a poster on the Androtics Direct website in big bold letters stating something short and simple like "Please Note before ordering: Orders placed today face a huge delay due to ongoing logistical issues with production. Order at your own risk. We are working to clear our order backlog as fast as possible, but would like to make you, our valued customer, aware of the potentially long delay in getting your order shipped. Please check back regularly for an update if you prefer to wait till things are back to normal."

Not putting such a post up but still accepting payments from unsuspecting customers and maknig them wait weeks - maybe months - for their merchandise, will not only show Androtics Direct in a bad light, but might also potentially open the company up to legal issues from irate customers who were not properly warned before they placed their orders.


As an aside, I would like to have a chat with someone in senior management about possibly looking at becoming a distributor of your products here in the UK - and potentially the EU. I am a supply chain manager and can smell (no pun intended, heh) issues in production and logistics from months away. I can ensure a smooth experience here in the UK and possibly EU as well for Androtics.

If interested, please drop me a PM. the way, still waiting for my first order to come through lol
You are exactly right. Just like shutting down the cart, posting a large nice to let people know what?s going on is definitely the right thing to do.

The two ladies we normally have edit the cart are now. I literally have no idea how to edit most of the text on the main page.

However, I do have control over the Welcome Bar up top. I?ll change it right away as a warning.

This is a huge reason we look forward to replatforming. The current cart and tools we have at our disposal requires quite a bit of ?specialization?, whereas some newer platforms do not. For smaller companies, it?s good if the various tools used are simple enough so anyone can jump in and lend a hand when necessary.

I love how you put things in your suggested announcement. My American one liner won?t be nearly as good!

I know it goes beyond the bounds of what you asked, but you might want to know that our founder actually loves the UK and has always suggest we move the company there. He currently has commitments in the nutrition industry, so I don?t know if he?d be able to go himself, but others in the company were fond of that idea, as well.

I don?t know if it?s because of the Beatles or what, but England almost always seems to have this long lasting appeal even to people who?ve never visited. Maybe it?s because it?s the land of people who read a lot, and chat at pubs about what they read. (We?ve had a lot of ?nerds? here who?ve enjoyed things like that!)

I understand that most of the UK, except for London, mostly has inflation under control?

And there?s no real ?Silicon Valley? type industry that regularly disrupts the economy of entire country, right?

I guess the downside, in a sense, would be Brexit limiting access to the EU market?

Of course, you might want to keep it to distributorship, which would be fine, too. I just could?ve sworn we posted a public message looking for potential British partners eons ago. I think that?s what I?m thinking of now. Apologies if you never saw that message.

In any case, regardless of the capacity you?d like to be involved, this would be a good discussion to have in more detail. It may be awhile until they get in contact, but I?ll pass on your message and will put you in contact with a decision maker here.

Thanks so much for writing in.

Originally Posted by solacehiding View Post
New beginnings!!

Thanks for adding some clarity to the situation. I?m sure Androtics labs will be better than ever

I love your enthusiasm. It pumps us up. Thank you!!!

Originally Posted by Uptonogood View Post
A damn shame. I was looking forward to buying more products but I guess that won't be happening anytime soon now. I very much liked p86 , 75, and 130. A314 was good too.

I never posted much here but as I've said already I was fond of the above products and bought them despite negative things I've heard about this place because I wanted to give y'all a chance and I'm glad I did. Hopefully I'll be able to buy from you guys down the road. I know I never provided much feedback or anything but that doesn't mean I disliked the products.

Oh well. It was fun while it lasted. Peace.
Originally Posted by Uptonogood View Post
I'd like to know of there's ANY possible way I could get a hold of one of the stealth a314s before it takes effect? Thanks.
Should be do-able.

Originally Posted by datadragon View Post
Yes that is still orderable and in stock and wont have to be made up.

Because the cart system is outdated, they are creating a new tech stack that will grow with them, rather then fall apart during issues according to Brian.

They are now working on fulfilling all the back orders. Some of it is simple orders, but many of whats left I was told are complex orders. Brian said the time it takes to complete one complex order is the time it takes to create an entire batch of, say, Ammo , which could release 12 or more orders which is why they had started with the simple orders. With the lead formulator not up to normal, there is just less they can make at a time but they are going to fulfill all of them. They also are splitting orders to get out some parts of orders that were waiting on something that needs to be made holding it up.

Items that are online I see are also possible to order. Keep in mind that if the item has many options, and you dont choose the default, then its going to need to be made up like a custom order, and there is a backlog of other orders so there will be a longer potential delay to fulfill it and would be in the queue.
Thank you for hopping in here, datadragon.

Originally Posted by mobocaster View Post
I've been able to order some Stealth A314 and a few other things tonight, so even despite the potential for a delivery delay, I'll be keeping faith till they return.

And my own particular hope is that this forum will be properly archived and should the worst happen and it has to go down, a copy will be made available as a reference resource for the future.
Thanks for writing, mobo.

The forum is never going away, although we?d like to replatform it as vbulletin itself basically gave up.

Androtics will still be around, albeit in different forms.

The only thing unexpected here was losing our LA space and workers, then losing another 2 key staffers to what insurance companies call ?acts of god?. We certainly didn't expect to have to shut down Direct without a new project to replace it.

The thing we may need to archive is the Direct website itself, as none of the new hires like the old systems at all. We already had one new hire (an ex-Zappos person) quit because things are ?too hard?.

It would be good to have a ?live? copy of Direct. We can probably move it to a cheaper host and keep a ?living? copy of it. The current host is a security & anti-ddos specialist. Far too expensive for archive.

In a way, it?s not even so bad comparatively. The endlsss DDOSes and nonsense hijinx a few years ago gave us a thicker skin. Things will heal and get better with time.
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