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Old January 24th, 2010, 04:00 AM   #11
Domnk Undisclosed
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Post Re: cops = mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Quote:
1986: Michael Whalen discovers copulins and classifies them as a pheromone.

There are numerous studies that now claim copulins are not a pheromone at all
Yes, that is true, but the studies conducted earlier on were either ambiguous in it's definition, or did in-fact state they were pheromones, so you can understand the confusion. (it's quite difficult to find the studies which note the difference between copulins and pheromones. I know they're out there somewhere, if anyone knows were to find them please let me know)

States copulins as pheromones -

Michael RP, Bonsall RW, Kutner M. Volatile fatty acids, "copulins", in human vaginal secretions. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1975;1(2):153–163.

Michael, R.P., Bonsall, R.W. and Warner, P., 1974. Human vaginal secretions: volatile fatty acid content. Science 186, pp. 1217–1219.

Ambiguous classification -

Michael RP, Keverne EB, Bonsal RW (1971) Pheromones: Isolation of male sex attractants from a female primate. Science, 172:964-96631.

Curtis RF, Ballantine JA, Keverne EB, Bonsall RW, Michael RP (1971) Identification of primate sexual pheromones and the properties of synthetic attractants. Nature, 232:396-398.

Indicated that the “C2-C5 aliphatic acids present in the vaginal secretions of estrogen-primed female rhesus monkeys were reported to act as releaser-type pheromones”. These compounds were tagged with the label of “Copulins”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Quote:
1997: Copulins proven to not affect a male's perception of a female's attractiveness.

I certainly can see why she took this cite down especially since this would disprove her theory
Hmmm, your right, it's completely contradictory to typical pheromone-esque interactions (which she does not discuss), and useless to her intravenous administration theory; however, it could easily be a typo. Because, in 1997 a study did in fact pronounce that there “is some evidence that men show an olfactory sexual response to copulins”

Grammer K, Jutte A, 1997. The war of odours: importance of pheromones for human reproduction. Gynaekol-Geburtshilflihe Rundsch 37: 150-153.

Supporting the unintended error theory, but your right, who really knows (not being sarcastic, by the way). She either meant to show that copulins have psychological effects, in general, on the male sex, before going into the intravenous/subcutaneous administration citations, but made a mistake; or not, and she didn't know what she was talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Quote:
2001 Feb: Dr. Clancy D. McKenzie, Professor of Integrative Medicine at Capital University of Integrative Medicine in Washington DC, proves in his own independent study that copulins take over the male hypothalamus.

The hypothalamus is not mind control at all. It's actually a far cry, considering it is responsible for body temp, thirst and hunger and the
circadian rhythm. There are no studies that substantiate the hypothalamus as the "thinking" control of the brain.

"The hypothalamus regulates motivated behavior",

“the CNS has engineered two regulatory processes fast-acting, fast-duration chemical events via neurotransmitters, and slow-acting, long-duration effects via hormones. The hypothalamus controls both processes”

Clinical Neuroscience By Kelly Lambert Craig H. Kinsley

"Thus, the hypothalamus appeared to coordinate and sequence motivated responses, as well as their correlated autonomic responses. Their circuitry is now know to descend from the hypothalamus to the midbrain and to the integrative centers in the brain stem and spinal cord."

Fundamental neuroscience, By Larry R. Squire

"The hypothalamus is also connected with higher parts of the central nevous system, however, including the cerebral cortex and the amygdala."

"...the hypothalamus is a superior center for the coordination of emotional reactions."

"It thus appears that the activity of the hypothalamus is significant not only for emotional reactions but also for the emotions themselves.

Conceivably, this is mediated by feedback connections from the hypothalamus to the limbic structures and the cerebral cortex-structures that are necessary for the experience of emotions (as distinct from emotional reactions)"

The central nervous system: structure and function, By Per Brodal

"The hypothalamus links the endocrine and nervous systems. It has connections with the cerebral cortex, thalamus, retina, posterior part of the pituitary gland and the sympathetic nervous system."

Science for the health team, By Barry G. Hinwood

"Actions require motivation. Even covert attention shifts depend on emotional interests of the organism; subcortical structures such as the amygdala, hippocampus and the hypothalamus influence voluntary attention mechanisms in the anterior cingulate. Actions imagined but not performed are both activated and inhibited in the frontal lobes and motor cortex; inhibition, controlled in large part by the hypothalamus, allows action images to be consciously experienced (Jeannerod 1998) along with the emotional values associated with the actions."

Proceedings of the Twenty-second Annual Conference of the Cognitive Science Society, By Lila R. Gleitman, Aravind K. Joshi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post

In actuality, to delve a bit deeper, none of those are anything but a time line of alleged events and not cites at all. I'd like to see what happens if anyone were to turn in a thesis based on those types of cites. I could easily predict ridicule and failure.
True, it was not formatted in a professional way, but that does not invalidate the theory, now does it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The burden of proof lies with anyone who affirms her theory, not me. So by your very standards it is harder to be objective and not believe because you want to believe. Due the research and find out and then post your research, but until such time it is a baseless position without merit.
Err, no, I'm stating that based on science, it is possible, I don't believe it is, or isn't truth. I operate in terms of theory, not truth, because prejudice belief is nonsense to me, everything is in a state of flux (to coin a phrase) until proven otherwise, and even then, it's still just a theory (pssst, which is still in flux)!

The fact that subjective burden of a possible disconcerting finding got in the way of the research, does not mean I "want to believe" it, just that I see all it's possible outcomes.

I'll go ahead and make the calls then, have put it off for awhile, and I saved everything, because I always intended to complete it.

Anywho....
Dominick
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Old August 7th, 2017, 07:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: cops = mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domnk View Post
Yes, that is true, but the studies conducted earlier on were either ambiguous in it's definition, or did in-fact state they were pheromones, so you can understand the confusion. (it's quite difficult to find the studies which note the difference between copulins and pheromones. I know they're out there somewhere, if anyone knows were to find them please let me know)

States copulins as pheromones -

Michael RP, Bonsall RW, Kutner M. Volatile fatty acids, "copulins", in human vaginal secretions. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1975;1(2):153–163.

Michael, R.P., Bonsall, R.W. and Warner, P., 1974. Human vaginal secretions: volatile fatty acid content. Science 186, pp. 1217–1219.

Ambiguous classification -

Michael RP, Keverne EB, Bonsal RW (1971) Pheromones: Isolation of male sex attractants from a female primate. Science, 172:964-96631.

Curtis RF, Ballantine JA, Keverne EB, Bonsall RW, Michael RP (1971) Identification of primate sexual pheromones and the properties of synthetic attractants. Nature, 232:396-398.

Indicated that the “C2-C5 aliphatic acids present in the vaginal secretions of estrogen-primed female rhesus monkeys were reported to act as releaser-type pheromones”. These compounds were tagged with the label of “Copulins”.



Hmmm, your right, it's completely contradictory to typical pheromone-esque interactions (which she does not discuss), and useless to her intravenous administration theory; however, it could easily be a typo. Because, in 1997 a study did in fact pronounce that there “is some evidence that men show an olfactory sexual response to copulins”

Grammer K, Jutte A, 1997. The war of odours: importance of pheromones for human reproduction. Gynaekol-Geburtshilflihe Rundsch 37: 150-153.

Supporting the unintended error theory, but your right, who really knows (not being sarcastic, by the way). She either meant to show that copulins have psychological effects, in general, on the male sex, before going into the intravenous/subcutaneous administration citations, but made a mistake; or not, and she didn't know what she was talking about.




"The hypothalamus regulates motivated behavior",

“the CNS has engineered two regulatory processes fast-acting, fast-duration chemical events via neurotransmitters, and slow-acting, long-duration effects via hormones. The hypothalamus controls both processes”

Clinical Neuroscience By Kelly Lambert Craig H. Kinsley

"Thus, the hypothalamus appeared to coordinate and sequence motivated responses, as well as their correlated autonomic responses. Their circuitry is now know to descend from the hypothalamus to the midbrain and to the integrative centers in the brain stem and spinal cord."

Fundamental neuroscience, By Larry R. Squire

"The hypothalamus is also connected with higher parts of the central nevous system, however, including the cerebral cortex and the amygdala."

"...the hypothalamus is a superior center for the coordination of emotional reactions."

"It thus appears that the activity of the hypothalamus is significant not only for emotional reactions but also for the emotions themselves.

Conceivably, this is mediated by feedback connections from the hypothalamus to the limbic structures and the cerebral cortex-structures that are necessary for the experience of emotions (as distinct from emotional reactions)"

The central nervous system: structure and function, By Per Brodal

"The hypothalamus links the endocrine and nervous systems. It has connections with the cerebral cortex, thalamus, retina, posterior part of the pituitary gland and the sympathetic nervous system."

Science for the health team, By Barry G. Hinwood

"Actions require motivation. Even covert attention shifts depend on emotional interests of the organism; subcortical structures such as the amygdala, hippocampus and the hypothalamus influence voluntary attention mechanisms in the anterior cingulate. Actions imagined but not performed are both activated and inhibited in the frontal lobes and motor cortex; inhibition, controlled in large part by the hypothalamus, allows action images to be consciously experienced (Jeannerod 1998) along with the emotional values associated with the actions."

Proceedings of the Twenty-second Annual Conference of the Cognitive Science Society, By Lila R. Gleitman, Aravind K. Joshi



True, it was not formatted in a professional way, but that does not invalidate the theory, now does it?




Err, no, I'm stating that based on science, it is possible, I don't believe it is, or isn't truth. I operate in terms of theory, not truth, because prejudice belief is nonsense to me, everything is in a state of flux (to coin a phrase) until proven otherwise, and even then, it's still just a theory (pssst, which is still in flux)!

The fact that subjective burden of a possible disconcerting finding got in the way of the research, does not mean I "want to believe" it, just that I see all it's possible outcomes.

I'll go ahead and make the calls then, have put it off for awhile, and I saved everything, because I always intended to complete it.

Anywho....
Dominick
Did you ever make the phone call to the people you had listed?
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Old August 8th, 2017, 06:23 AM   #13
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Post Re: cops = mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andye View Post
Did you ever make the phone call to the people you had listed?
Oh man, this is a blast from the past. This discussion was from like seven years ago now and was just a teenager during the research project. I'm surprised to see this thread again, as I haven't done much research in pheromone studies since I was writing a paper to correct my psychology teacher in the existence of documented human pheromones in college, but I digress.

To answer your question, I never did end up making those calls. Given the subject matter it was a rather tumultuous possible outcome, intellectually speaking, and was fine leaving it as an nonvalidated but potential theory... that plus teenage social anxiety
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