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Old February 7th, 2018, 03:24 AM   #61
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Default Re: The Blood Type / Pheromone Connection?

The patent says estimated. It also assumed low volatility or ability to diffuse off the body such as via hair which could be completely off, otherwise externally we would be able to see similar effects at those very low doses especially with the added diffusion. From: Advances in Chemical Signals in Vertebrates as info to start, not sure if there is other studies out there more recent....



E3M2H I agree sounds interesting being in greater concentration, it would be interesting to see any effects on others tried solo, and contributes to the body odor.

As far as androstenone only, in further testing they may find a wide varying natural level if it really is a big natural contributor as opposed to other things. The contributing factors to the base natural level that I'd suggest to test are age (older vs younger) and by race. It also seems the levels correlate very well to testosterone levels and could be tested high vs low men to see for differences. There was also the knowledge that androstenol is produced with new fresh sweat and then converts to androstenone as well as Androstadienone converts to enone , and that androstenone stays around much longer once its there and definately accumulates in total when used externally, called 'buildup'.


* Black and Hispanic races seem to have a higher tolerance for androstenone from a younger age, likely from the equivalent male of that race outputting a naturally higher level. Asians/SE Asians seem to have lower tolerance for androstenone , likely from the equivalent male outputting a naturally lower level. Jdub with JustinTime469 also have thought this in their race journal.

* Those who are younger seem to have lower tolerance for androstenone then as they age, such as over 30. The young also seem to favor beta (epi) androsterone, and then prefer more alpha androsterone as they are older.

* Slight changes on a specific receptor gene in the olfactory system contribute to differences in the way people smell androstenone . The RT code has a stronger response and find it negative/urinous while people with the WM variant had a impaired lesser reaction to it and described it as more pleasant and floral. One reason why a future stealth scent version with added fragrance neutralizers would help someday when they have time to make and do testing.

* During ovulation, a womens ability to smell androstenone and musk becomes stronger, and those who have a negative reaction find it more neutral during this time. Women prefer men who have higher androstenone during this period.

* Dosing changes of androstenone changes the age and race of who responds, there seems to be a tolerance range that people best respond to based on the final amount. Keep in mind you have some in your base signature, plus what you are adding, plus any residual from prior applications earlier in the day or the day before. Adding nols or other social/buffers seem to lessen the androstenone the other way making it more appealing to those with lower tolerance. Asians/SE Asians prefer a higher Androsterone signature with lower androstenone .

* Some use none, or 250ng to 2.5mcg and get good results, while others need 5-10 to see similar effects. 15-20 without buffers might be possible. Most blends I think now just have buffers that lower it back down, so when a blend has 20mcg per spray and use two sprays, if it also has buffers its not hitting like 40mcg.

* Estrogen also might be good to test. It contributes to higher output of natural nols. Fat Guys = More friendly/less sexual... If the level of androstenone itself isnt highly variable, it may be the ratio of nols to the androstenone buffering it causing the differences.

Last edited by datadragon; April 3rd, 2018 at 01:36 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 09:03 PM   #62
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Default Re: The Blood Type / Pheromone Connection?

In the study above that is nanograms per microliter of fresh aprocrine secretions. The secretions were induced by adrenaline injection. The highest amount produced by male subjects was 30 microliters.

Armpit odor is caused by hexanoic acids that are extememly powerful like copulins. Odorless precursors are carried in fresh apocrine by the apolipoprotein D carrier. Bacterial enzymes release the precursors. The contribution of - enone to body odor is negligible.

Book:
Pheromones and Animal Behavior: Chemical Signals and Signatures. Page 290.

Quote:
However, a human lipocalin, apolipoprotein D, was recently found expressed in apocrine glands, and was shown to bind the axillary odorant, E-3-methyl-2-hexenoic acid (E-3M2H) (Zeng et al., Proc. Nat'l Acad. Sci. (USA) 93:6626 (1996)).
Human Lipocalin Protein patents

Quote:
E3M2H I agree sounds interesting being in greater concentration, it would be interesting to see any effects on others tried solo, and contributes to the body odor.
E3M2H is the primary odor. Primary.

Quote:
A 2006 study by Japanese scientists seems to dispute the claim of the lack of body odor among Asians. From studies done in the 1980s and 90s, scientists believed that armpit odor came from volatile steroids ( androstenol , androstenone , and androstandienone), which have musky and urinary odors, and isovaleric acid, having an acidic odor. In the 1990s further research showed these odors were caused by linear saturated and linear unsaturated, and branched saturated and branched unsaturated C6 C11 fatty acids, particularly trans-3-methyl-2-hexenoic acid (IUPAC name: (E)-3-Methylhex-2-enoic acid, or E3M2H for short). So this is the compound researched in this study, "Individual Comparisons of the Levels of (E)-3-Methyl-2-Hexenoic Acid, an Axillary Odor Related Compound, in Japanese [people]."
This is the teacher's manual (2014) from the American Chemical Society:
This is the science of human odor taught in the college classroom. These are the facts as we know them in 2018 vs. 1998 or 2005.
Background Information - Under Arm Yourself With Chemistry! Table of Contents




While I don't know the future of Androtics or this board, my further paticipation, such as it is, will always be founded in the best facts I can find. Imperfect. That is all we have beyond guesses. My tests are to try to identify what molecules might work at approx. 500 mcg for poss use in A314 etc. Put some drops of pure -enone in cologne. I think it might do just as well in blind tests as any more complex mix. Some women love it, some will punch you.

Last edited by monesmadedoit; February 8th, 2018 at 10:12 PM.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 07:12 AM   #63
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Default Re: The Blood Type / Pheromone Connection?

This is a great thread!!
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Old April 3rd, 2018, 01:36 AM   #64
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Default Re: The Blood Type / Pheromone Connection?



So here is the USA population blood types from the Red Cross. There is a large diversity of blood types for every race I see.

Do those of you with blood type O from any race even asian/se asians find the same issue with an easy OD on androstenone ? And do you have lots of lean muscle rather then fat if you do? And anyone with a different blood type that also finds they OD easier?

I now also wonder if those of any race, and especially female Asians/SE Asians with type O blood are more tolerant of Androstenone or Asians/SE Asians with say type A as most japanese are apparently are the ones that are less tolerant... This may explain the variation in hits among races with such a large diversity and the 50% rate of O may explain some more of the african american/latino-american response to higher enone perhaps..

And if women with blood type O tend toward more alpha, or potentially a higher sex drive from increased testosterone etc...

Post your blood type and what you see...

This is due to certain blood types just having an easier genetic ability to digest protein which leads naturally to more muscle and ultimately higher testosterone. (See post #53).

As a side note I'll add, I am still thinking it just comes down to our current testosterone levels outputting more pheromones however, our lean muscle vs fat, and how you come across to others such as intimidating/unapproachable or friendly/approachable rather then the blood type... I can imagine many type O's still get fat from poor diet/exercise etc, have lower T levels sometimes as they age, or due to adrenal exhaustion from stressors the body would cannibalize proteins reducing muscle mass/T counteracting the genetics...This certainly shows it is more then just a person say african american is 100% always high enone with high T.

Last edited by datadragon; April 3rd, 2018 at 04:23 AM.
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Old April 3rd, 2018, 04:14 AM   #65
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Default Re: The Blood Type / Pheromone Connection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monesmadedoit View Post
Quoting MHarris, who started the thread -

Erox filed one of the original patents on A-1.

They wrote in their patent filing:

Patent app US 5278141 A (1994)

That would be 700 nanograms

The patent was approved to Pherin a couple years later as US5883087.

It used the same quoted language but added -

MH means to say 800 pmol (which is 0.800 nmol). This is the amount reported by Gower et al. MH is conflating the 2 since the 1996 approved patent doesn't use nmol or pmol amounts.

700 nanograms is more than 800 pmol and more than reported by Gower. 700 seems small but it is far higher than Gower reported in sweat. 700 would be the high exteme of natural output for androstenes like A1 .

Instant female magic for men?
Androstadienone is the most prominent steroid present on male human axillary hair and on the male axillary skin surface, and in human male sweat. It is being studied ongoing by scientists as a putative pheromone. Some of the steroid levels in general are higher in sweat while some are higher on skin or hair. Skin Vs Sweat

This study showed effects on women with only 100 Picograms of Androstadienone! "We report that administration of this steroid under these conditions results in a significant reduction of nervousness, tension and other negative feeling states."
http://www.psyneuen-journal.com/arti...99)00056-6/pdf

Study using 250 um

We are clearly using too high a dose at 5-40mcg or more regularly, especially since we are using enhanced methods of diffusion that would bring much more of it to everyones nose. I am thinking 1 microgram or even 500 nanograms should be tested. LAL has a 2mg/10ml oil dose which is 4 microgram per drop maybe also as a starting point. Instant Female Magic it seemed had around 13 micrograms per spray or so.

It seems to be detected however in the main olfactory epithelium of humans however and not the VNO as originally thought.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17917120
VNO is not involved in human processing of putative pheromones
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?...earch=16481428

Last edited by datadragon; April 14th, 2018 at 02:03 AM.
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