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Old September 29th, 2005, 10:38 PM   #1
MHarris Male
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Arrow Adding Science & Sanity to Pheromones

There's a large creneau, I think, for science and sanity in pheromones.

On the one hand, you have the researchers with their tunnel vision, and less than breathtaking studies. They prove boring (but important) points in spectacular, expensive ways.

On the other, you have the hypesters who write their ads first, and make their products second.

I was just reading the ad copy for Primal Instinct, for instance, and it claims that it'll make you a "hit" at work. Use a few drops, sure, it'll do you well! Very unlikely. Products like that have a purpose, but it's definitely not for the working environment. It may more appropriate to say that it will "make people HIT you at work". Large amounts of raw androstenone isn't exactly what you'd call friendly.

Worse, is when the hypesters make up fake facts that you have to compete with. Tons of people bring these up to us, and expect for us to have solutions to problems that don't even exist.

Like the alcohol kills pheromone myth. What are pheromones, germs? No!

Alcohol will dissolve pheromones and act as a carrier, yes, but destroy them? Nope.

How about the the 99.9% pure reagent grade pheromone myth? The company that appears to have started this one makes products for many different distributors, all of which use their ad copy, so this lie really spreads like wildfire. It's a lie-virus.

Fact is, this company making purity claims is using a forged COA taken from the Sigma-Aldrich website, even using Sigma's product code (A8008) as their own. That's like using the barcode for Heinz Pickles on your car wax product - it's a huge "reveal". After really staring at their COA, I seriously have doubts that they even know how to read a COA, nevermind write one. They put the 99.9% forgery on the WRONG SIDE of the COA, for example. That's right, they called the STANDARD 99.9% pure and their own pheromone less pure! If you know how to read a COA, you what a ridiculous "error" this is. More importantly, you wouldn't want reagent grade pheromones anyway.

ACS reagents are not human grade; the small amount of contaminants they do have are often harmful - harmful metals used as catalysts. USP is the standard for human grade, because that standard prohibits many dangerous contaminants. I'm just a lowly formulator and pheromone enthusiast, not some chemical guru, and I know this... so what does that make them?

Fact is Sigma-Alrich's own fine grade androstenone is only 98.2% by HPLC on the very COA they cloned. Probably the biggest chemical company on earth. Some of the specialized chemists we work with can beat Sigma a little, but getting to 99.9% by HPLC I understand is going to require custom engineered enzymes (so you can avoid metal catalysts entirely), and a clean room that exists under fantasy-like circumstances. We tested a commercial grade 98.5% rone against a 99.3% rone hand formulated by one of the most senior androgen chemists on the planet. A men who verifies each and every synthesis step by TLC. None of our end testers noticed the difference in effects. Pure enough is pure enough. No need to lie and put the wrong idea in consumer's heads.

Or how about the 'women will start to hump your leg instantly' lie? This is a really insane one. Women, in general, aren't even initiators.

And that may be the biggest fraud of all... how these products get women to all of a sudden change their nature, and initiate sex on demand left and right. Not true!

Some women are like that, but few are. You catch any woman while she's ovulating, and she's going to be more agressive.

If you're seeing chronic hypersexuality, it's usually the women with more masculine features (look for the ones with low body fat and mustaches), because it's the masculine hormones that are initiatory in nature. Fact is, pheromones make it EASIER to be a man - to be an initiator. They reduce rejection dramatically, yes, but they do NOT inaliably alter human nature (from what I've seen so far, anyway). They do what they do, and what that is, is incredible enough without lying about it.

These are real things to get excited about here.

There are also real things to battle.

I don't think we need to go making up things out of thin air.

It's tough to compete against big boisterous lies that sound good, but are full of hot air. Really tough. It's like pitting Brad Pitt against Santa Claus to a 2 year old child. Despite how cool Brad Pitt may be to people who know better, the child doesn't knowbetter. So he chooses the myth of Santa Claus. Eventually, he, too, shall learn. But in the meantime, the legitimate competition to Santa suffers.

Pheromones provide real effects, but because the effects are so subjective, by their very nature, we really don't need any false "pre-programming".

If it's tough to know thyself, it's not any easier to know thyself + pheromones.

Now, in the middle of the hypesters there's the users, and this is where some amazing value lies.

They're faster than researchers.

Genreally, much more perceptive and self-aware.

They sift fact from fiction pretty quickly.

And are an all around bunch of fun. ANYBODY who experiements, to me, is just a sheer joy. The nature and spirit of human experimentation and invention stes me on high. It gets me going, and seeing other people really revvs me up, too. I love it, through and through.

I'd like to add more science and sanity to the pheromone realm. I have some projects I made years back to do so, but have been slowed by my very real perfectionist tendencies. I will dwell over the smallest details for hours... days... years, getting everytghing just right. I've been encouraged to throw caution to the wind, and am trying to remind myself that if you're too much of a perfectionist, you're as much as loser as the person who doesn't care at all.... because, long story short, you're not producing tangible benefits for people to actually use and LIFE... itself... is short.

So I'm trying to get into throw caution to the wind mode.

I'm also trying to work with real ad writers to help promote our new products. That scares me all to hell. I won't let these people lie, but at the same time, smoe of the comments on our products from actual users.sound so damn... unbelieable! Truly and really unbelievable.

Fact is, when it comes to pheromones, when a certain product really matches well with your body chemistry and your inner "game", TRUTH can be much stronger and much mroe unbelievable than fiction. Some of the comments from users make me blush, because they're seem to be even less believable than the adcopy for products like Primal and APC. Yet, they're real. Much of it unsolicitied.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the science and science of pheromones right now. A little bit of what we're up to added to that.

I'm an introvert by nature, so please don't mind my unrefined manner of speaking. I'm tryin! Even better, I'm "doin'". And that counts, right?

All the best,
Michael

Last edited by John Sebastian; January 9th, 2014 at 10:50 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old September 30th, 2005, 05:51 PM   #2
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Thumbs up re: Adding Science & Sanity to Pheromones

Hi Mharris, nice to meet you!

I love this post! Ditto - Ditto - Ditto!

The fact that we really need to remove the blatant hype from this field and approach it in a much more real and scientific way.

And yes, experimenting is just sooo much fun! I have my little collection of bottles and droppers and such, and I love to concoct new mixes.

And yes, I too can be perfectionist to the point it stops me dead in my tracks.

Good luck with the copyad!

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Old October 2nd, 2005, 04:01 AM   #3
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Default re: Adding Science & Sanity to Pheromones

I think we need to give enthusiasts the tools we give scientists.

Scientists, themselves, do far too little with the gems they have. They sit around idly. There's no real ooomph for them. They're not passionate like some of the users.

Bringing science to the PEOPLE, the passionate people, I think would work like gangbusters.

Imagine if you waited around for science to valid the computers or video cards. Progress would slow to a hault.

But releasing technology, which is one way to view pheromones, to the passionate niches... you can evolve things at a truly rapid pace.

That's what I hoped to do with the ExperiMone system, which is mostly a friendly way (a simple interface) to interface with an otherwise complex task - dosing different classes of pheromones. A rapid way to make custom mixes.

Unfortunately, as we find more and more human pheromones, the codifying system I work out falls apart. I think I'm going to have to release ExperiMone like software - v1, v2, etc. That would fight against my perfectionist tendencies. We could even do less than perfect labels in house at first, just to get something out there - if nobody would mind, we could launch such a product in a couple days, vs. the months or years needed for a completely professionally labeled, industral robot filled and bottled system.

Ad writers aren't nearly as bad as I once thought. The really expensive ones, in fact, are paid as much as they do because they delve into research. They write educational copy that informs and teaches as much as it teases.

These guys are really expensive, but I hope to invest in their work. They could help expand the range of application of pheromones beyond dating, mating and sex, which I think is important.

They could help educate people and uncover metaphors for us that we've never thought of. Not so bad.

I think I now understand what kind of advertising I hate... I now understand that sometimes these guys are hired to write ads FIRST, which are sometimes put out in the wild without any product to back them up, and then the product is made to fulfill those promises only if the ad succeeds.

That may be workable with certain information products, perhaps... but with pheromones, you're just asking for trouble. The Primal Instinct for men and APC ads seem to be written like that, for example.

It's a bad idea because pheromones are too new a technology. Not even researchers, 20 years later, know what androstenone does. You can't make a wish, then easily fulfill it with pheromones. It's not easy.

Sometimes you just have to release pheromones out into the wild, into the hands of passionate, perceptive users, and get feedback as to the effects. Then, and only then, would we throw that mass of user generated data to an ad writer, so he can explain it to everyone else. To me, that makes more sense.

It also makes for some amazing perceptions about products that nobody would've ever htought up. I'm amazed at some of the uses end users have found for A314 , for example. Feedback is essential. With every comment we've received, I've tweaked the formula more in the both the natural direction the formula instrinsicly seems to want to go (which is towards trust, leadership and classical style masculinity), and to expand on what users like, and reduce what they don't.

Feedback IS great.

I'm glad you're a fellow experimenter. Welcome aboard!

Sorry about all my typos, by the way.. thought I'd get a chance to edit this stuff before anyone else arrived.
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Old October 4th, 2005, 05:20 AM   #4
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Default re: Adding Science & Sanity to Pheromones

By the way, I should add that there are some other company's work I really like, but most haven't done much recently. Erox, Dr. Dodd, and heck, even Dr. Cutler isn't as bad as people make her out to be. Her formula is interesting, despite the fact that it's weak. LaCroy finally put out a new product, and I'm very glad to see it. This is one I'm actually going to buy and test myself, because I happen to like LaCroy's work.

Having other good companies in the fray is invaluable.

What most people don't realize is true competition is actually cooperation... you cooperate with other companies to bring the greatest value to the end user. I like that.

Also, products that actually work make the whole pheromone industry look better overall.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 05:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Adding Science & Sanity to Pheromones

These are truly good products and while they work differently for everyone...providing they try enough to find best matches for them...they are always pleased.

I'd like to share my appreciation and thanks as I am able to be comfortably and socially engaged in the world I live in as a result. I wasn't a "shut in". I was just not able to entirely enjoy all aspects of my life, and I very much do now....but I'm still testing mones , so It'll probably get even better for me .

Thanks for starting this amazing community and providing such fantastic products!
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Old October 22nd, 2016, 06:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: Adding Science & Sanity to Pheromones

I completely agree with you MHarris.
I love being out in the field and testing and constantly analyzing how to tweak to arrive at perfection. I feel this is such a better method than just lab coats doing the 'work'.
There's no passion, or at least not the same degree of passion.
Pheromones are amazing things.
They've totally changed my life - and not because I feel like I can turn on 'God mode' anytime I want, but because they've brought me to a greater realization of the world around me.

I also love your work and this place. I can see what you mean about 'hypesters'.
And poor quality products and vague or even outrageous claims.
Whereas here in the forum you have so much genuine helpful information. Then you guys hit us with the GC and 200% money back and the freebies.
I've never been a part of a better community, that I can recollect.

We've never met or spoken before but I'd like to take this time to express my gratitude for all you've done here.
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