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Old May 30th, 2008, 05:29 AM   #1
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Default A314 and Ammo Combo Question

I use both or variants on a near daily basis.

Now there is some overlap in the individual pheromones in both products although A314 certainly has more as reported and the ratios are also certainly different.

My question is this: When we wear both A314 and Ammo at the same time are we sending out the two distinct signals of Ammo and A314 ... or are we just throwing out a lot of signal, but one that is neither really one or the other? If it is the latter are we just sending out an off-kilter A314 message with a higher dose of 'none? Or are we throwing off a more complex Ammo signal?

I guess it can be a fine line and in the end one could say the distinction may be moot as long as you get positive attention both male and female.

But I am curious as to what everyone thinks. My problem is that now that I have been wearing these very same products ( A314 / Instant Gentleman / Ammo ) for so long I am not sure where peoples' residual impressions from the last two years differentiate from their reactions to what I am wearing today if you understand. I shift back and forth between the three constantly. So I consistantly get the respect I get with A314 even if I do not wear it for a day or so. People think I am younger and I get the "cool" thing going with certain people whether I am wearing Instant Gentleman that particular day or not.

Please give us your thoughts.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 05:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

I think that's a great question. I've wondered the same thing. I thought the effect of a314 was dependent to some extent on the ratios of the different pheromones. So it sounds to me like adding pheromones, especially -none, would change the effectiveness of the a314 .

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed here before, at least that I've seen. I look forward to hearing other's thoughts too.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 07:31 AM   #3
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

I'm thinking that Ammo + A314 would be like a socially fortified Ammo , or a sexually fortified A314 , if that makes any sense. You're increasing the -none amounts, but with the buffering pheromones in Ammo that are also present in A314 , you're still keeping it pretty "safe". Overall, I'm not sure what the benefit of it would be, but that's not to stop ya from testing it. Obviously, if you wanted to give A314 a sexual kick, TUTH would be the one to mix.

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Old May 30th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

Quote:
When we wear both A314 and Ammo at the same time are we sending out the two distinct signals of Ammo and A314 ... or are we just throwing out a lot of signal, but one that is neither really one or the other? If it is the latter are we just sending out an off-kilter A314 message with a higher dose of 'none? Or are we throwing off a more complex Ammo signal?
No its not really 2 separate signals. When you wear AMMO with A314 you increase the sexiness and interest vibe. You still have the respect trust vibe going though people will be less taken back by the sternness of A314 . I think for the older guys its not a problem with overlapping mones . I think younger guys should use one or the other as there base mone or cut down on the dosage of each if worn together.

So A314 on its own predominately says......... Respect, trust, alpha, signals leader, it says I am the most important man in the room.

AMMO on its own says Sexy, attractive, interesting, arousing

Together they say Sexy interesting respected alpha leader. The hottest alpha in the room.
Wearing all 3 together A314 AMMO and IG would be overkill in my opinion. To much masculine and not enough buffering or depth of personality. Not to say it would not work but you want to find balance.

We often equate the vibes or persona's we evoke with actors to make it more clear. The ladies do this a lot and it helps to understand the vibe more.

A314 is sort of Clint Eastwood

AMMO is sort of Brad Pitt

AMMO + A314 = Sean Connery


Quote:
So I consistently get the respect I get with A314 even if I do not wear it for a day or so. People think I am younger and I get the "cool" thing going with certain people whether I am wearing Instant Gentleman that particular day or not.
This is normal. You have changed a persons perception of you so you will still get certain reactions with certain products.

There are times when I am wearing something like Instant sexiness and I don't seem to get reactions from certain individuals and then suddenly later out of no where I get a hit when I don't have a mix on. I believe they have retained the feeling they got from when I was wearing it and they now associate the feeling to me. Perhaps it just wasn't a good time before to react or they were nervous. Overtime there perception of me would return to normal if I stopped using it. I am not saying I would be less just that my personality would be less enhanced.

My Method is to choose 1 Base mix. This is the mix that's says " This is who I am" it enhances my persona. Then I shift around what I wear with that base mix to evoke different responses "This is how I want you to feel about who I am " Not sure if that makes sense to you. LOL

Tisha
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Old May 30th, 2008, 12:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

Ammo + A314 = powerful :P
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Old May 30th, 2008, 05:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

Great question Bosshank! I have wondered about it for a while too.
I agree with Tisha. I also agree with you that finally its the responses that matter and the fact that you are getting positive responses means your pheromone signature is congruent with you.

I doubt we can process all the signals differently. Even though we may have separate olfactory receptors for each pheromone and separate recptors for visual and auditory signals, I think finally the brain is going to interpret it as a cohesive whole.

I think the day you use pheromones you are amping up your signal but as Tisha pointed out people retain memories of how they felt around you that day and may show an outward reaction at a later date when you may not be wearing pheromones.

I think A314 + Ammo is just a little more risque and fun version of A314 effect.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 06:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

I am in complete agreement with Tisha and nbully, and especially liked nbully's statement:

Quote:
I think finally the brain is going to interpret it as a cohesive whole.
It made me think of cooking: a well spiced meal may have hints of the various spices with no single spice stealing focus of the meal. But, if you put too much of any single spice it can ruin the meal.

Quote:
My question is this: When we wear both A314 and Ammo at the same time are we sending out the two distinct signals of Ammo and A314 ... or are we just throwing out a lot of signal, but one that is neither really one or the other? If it is the latter are we just sending out an off-kilter A314 message with a higher dose of 'none? Or are we throwing off a more complex Ammo signal?
I really don't look at either A314 or Ammo as being a single message, as both are combinations of molecules and therefore a combination of signals, which as nbully said become a cohesive whole upon processing by the brain.

As long as you're not adding products or molecules conflicting with the other components, I think it is probably fine. I think if you were to wear something like TAH with A314 , that could possible throw the A314 off kilter, but I think Ammo could compliment it well.

But, there's no telling until you try it. As I was typing I was reminded of my original testing with *** 0.25.1a, in which after making up my first batch of the mix, spraying it on and heading out to Red River, a girl at the club asked me if I was gay. Then, the next morning when I came to the forum I had a PM from SteveO saying P93 should not exceed X levels in the mix unless you want women to think you are gay. I would never have expected P93 to put out a gay vibe, but it interacted weirdly with something in the mix or the overall composition to take it in an entirely different direction.

Play with them all you want and have fun. If you end up getting poor results with a combo, you can always tweak it differently tomorrow.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 06:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post

There are times when I am wearing something like Instant sexiness and I don't seem to get reactions from certain individuals and then suddenly later out of no where I get a hit when I don't have a mix on.
I have noticed this too. It's just what psychologists call "operant conditioning". People are taking away impressions from you and altering their own views of you over time. Also, it works faster on people that hardly know you, or don't know you at all. People that have known you for a long time, takes longer for pheromones to change anything.

Just an example... you go up to a person and say "Piss off", they wil assume you are a naturally, highly rude person. You say to a friend in coversation "Piss off", and they will assume you are just in a really bad mood. The attribution is different. Strangers attribute your behavior to your personality, people that are more intimate with you attribute it to your mood. Over time the people who are close to you will start assuming you are changing towards a more negative personality if you keep talking like that

Quote:
My Method is to choose 1 Base mix. This is the mix that's says " This is who I am" it enhances my persona. Then I shift around what I wear with that base mix to evoke different responses "This is how I want you to feel about who I am " Not sure if that makes sense to you. LOL
Tisha
I would never mix different "base mixes", unless you really knew what you were doing. You'ld have to wear it yourself and gauge the reactions, and since both products are so complex, it is just better to start simple and work from there. Consider your goals: Ammo and A314 have totally different purposes- Ammo is a fun mix, and A314 is a no-nonsense "status" mix that gives you a bit of a "VIP" vibe. They are bound to clash to some extent.

If you just want a general masculine social vibe, Instant Gentlemen is a decent base and is very neutral and allows more of your natural personality to come out in brief encounters. Stuff like Ammo and A314 start paving over it, especially the A314 based stuff.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 12:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosshank View Post
I use both or variants on a near daily basis.

Now there is some overlap in the individual pheromones in both products although A314 certainly has more as reported and the ratios are also certainly different.

My question is this: When we wear both A314 and Ammo at the same time are we sending out the two distinct signals of Ammo and A314 ... or are we just throwing out a lot of signal, but one that is neither really one or the other? If it is the latter are we just sending out an off-kilter A314 message with a higher dose of 'none? Or are we throwing off a more complex Ammo signal?

I guess it can be a fine line and in the end one could say the distinction may be moot as long as you get positive attention both male and female.

But I am curious as to what everyone thinks. My problem is that now that I have been wearing these very same products ( A314 / Instant Gentleman / Ammo ) for so long I am not sure where peoples' residual impressions from the last two years differentiate from their reactions to what I am wearing today if you understand. I shift back and forth between the three constantly. So I consistantly get the respect I get with A314 even if I do not wear it for a day or so. People think I am younger and I get the "cool" thing going with certain people whether I am wearing Instant Gentleman that particular day or not.

Please give us your thoughts.
Good thread as usual. I've pretty much stopped combining A314 / AMMO / IG . I'm starting to think it's better to wear one of them as a base and then add whatever to it depending on mood or setting. I'm also using one thing for 2 - 3 weeks before switching to another. It seems that the longer I use pheromones the more benefit I find to changing signal abruptly but infrequently.

I know when I started I was spraying this and that and changing around all the time. Then when I was going to Spanish class I really got into testing stuff and looking for reactions because I had a good opportunity to do it. I found there that unless I was doing some megadose thing it was best to wear something for at least 2 or 3 classes straight to get a good idea of what was happening. Based on that experience once my spring business rush started I slowed down even more.

Typically my regular customers are exposed to my pheros anywhere from once a week to nearly everyday. By changing more abruptly and not overlapping I seem to be able to hold their attention better and get better responses long term. With new customers or infrequent customers it really doesn't matter because the heightened pheromone signal is always there.

Anyway I guess that's the long way of saying that I think they work better as stand alones. In fact the more I use them the simpler I like to keep things. One base product, one instant product or mix, and when I'm on an Ishine or Raw Power binge a little of that. Mharris has done the work , I don't know why it took me so long to learn to trust him.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 08:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: A314 and Ammo Combo Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post
No its not really 2 separate signals. When you wear AMMO with A314 you increase the sexiness and interest vibe. You still have the respect trust vibe going though people will be less taken back by the sternness of A314.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark-in-dallas View Post
I really don't look at either A314 or Ammo as being a single message, as both are combinations of molecules and therefore a combination of signals, which as nbully said become a cohesive whole upon processing by the brain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbully79 View Post
I doubt we can process all the signals differently. Even though we may have separate olfactory receptors for each pheromone and separate recptors for visual and auditory signals, I think finally the brain is going to interpret it as a cohesive whole.
OK - I think we are right here ... although I was beginning to go down a rabbit hole I think the important things is the results we see from wearing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post
A314 on its own predominately says......... Respect, trust, alpha, signals leader, it says I am the most important man in the room.

AMMO on its own says Sexy, attractive, interesting, arousing

Together they say Sexy interesting respected alpha leader. The hottest alpha in the room.

AMMO + A314 = Sean Connery
Well Sean was always one of my wife's favorites so I guess I am "In like Flint".

Quote:
Originally Posted by data4 View Post
I'm thinking that Ammo + A314 would be like a socially fortified Ammo, or a sexually fortified A314, if that makes any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbully79 View Post
I think A314+Ammo is just a little more risque and fun version of A314 effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoJay View Post
Ammo + A314 = powerful :P
We all seem to mostly be in basic agreement on this too - cool. Although Daedelus a couple good points too about not mixing solid though sometimes chemically complex bases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post
I think for the older guys its not a problem with overlapping pheromones. I think younger guys should use one or the other as there base pheromone or cut down on the dosage of each if worn together.
Very interesting observation Tisha. This is one of those gems we ought to add to a sticky somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post
Wearing all 3 together A314 AMMO and Instant Gentleman would be overkill in my opinion.
I agree. I may have accidentally caused some confusion so let me clear that up. I do what Renny describes below and alternate between using either A314 and Instant Honesty OR Instant Gentleman as a base wearing each one for several days to a couple weeks before shifting. On the weekends and evenings I tend to shift to Ammo or a variant (MX237) as I am around the wife more.

Now for me the "usual" time I end up mixing A314 and Ammo is in the evening when I add a few shots of Ammo (for the wife) on top of the A314 I was wearing during the day. But I have read about some users using the A314 / Ammo mix as a social/club mix with good results. I get good results at home so I thought I would bring up the subject ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post
My Method is to choose 1 Base mix. This is the mix that's says " This is who I am" it enhances my persona. Then I shift around what I wear with that base mix to evoke different responses "This is how I want you to feel about who I am " Not sure if that makes sense to you. LOL
No it makes a lot of sense and I think a lot of long term users end up arriving at this point. You can however shift between bases.

This is another one of those gems we ought to add to a sticky somewhere. In that this is what the new users ought to be aiming for - finding a phermone base or bases (work/social) that is "them" then tweak it from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedelus76 View Post
I would never mix different "base mixes", unless you really knew what you were doing. You'ld have to wear it yourself and gauge the reactions, and since both products are so complex, it is just better to start simple and work from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renny View Post
I've pretty much stopped combining A314 / AMMO / Instant Gentleman. I'm starting to think it's better to wear one of them as a base and then add whatever to it depending on mood or setting. I'm also using one thing for 2 - 3 weeks before switching to another. It seems that the longer I use pheromones the more benefit I find to changing signal abruptly but infrequently.
Another part of this vein of gems we seem to have hit here. I do pretty much the same as I stated above although sometimes I do not wait 2-3 weeks to shift between the A314 / Instant Honesty or Instant Gentleman as a base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by data4 View Post
Obviously, if you wanted to give A314 a sexual kick, Turn Up The Heat would be the one to mix.
Actually I generally leave the A314 alone during the day except to buffer it with Instant Honesty ... BUT ... sometimes I throw in some Turn Up The Heat or NPA when I am using Instant Gentleman as the base. Am I making Instant Gentleman with a sexual undertone or am I just creating a mutant version of Ammo ? Or does it matter as long as it works? It is times like these I wish I knew the exact ingredient list for these products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbully79 View Post
I agree with Tisha. I also agree with you that finally its the responses that matter and the fact that you are getting positive responses means your pheromone signature is congruent with you.
Answers the question above. Plus a nod to Renny's congruency discussion. Sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post
AMMO + A314 = Sean Connery
But am I really a hot alpha Sean Connery? Uhhhhhhhhh ..... sure, that's me - lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisha23 View Post
There are times when I am wearing something like Instant sexiness and I don't seem to get reactions from certain individuals and then suddenly later out of no where I get a hit when I don't have a mix on. I believe they have retained the feeling they got from when I was wearing it and they now associate the feeling to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbully79 View Post
I think the day you use pheromones you are amping up your signal but as Tisha pointed out people retain memories of how they felt around you that day and may show an outward reaction at a later date when you may not be wearing pheromones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedelus76 View Post
I have noticed this too. It's just what psychologists call "operant conditioning". People are taking away impressions from you and altering their own views of you over time. Also, it works faster on people that hardly know you, or don't know you at all. People that have known you for a long time, takes longer for pheromones to change anything.
Thanks for sharing that knowledge. Now it has a name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedelus76 View Post
If you just want a general masculine social vibe, Instant Gentlemen is a decent base and is very neutral and allows more of your natural personality to come out in brief encounters.
I agree. I think Instant Gentleman is extrememly under-rated in the rush of a lot of guys to bump up their raw sex appeal via none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedelus76 View Post
Stuff like Ammo and A314 start paving over it, especially the A314 based stuff.
That is a very interesting take and I agree it happens when you dose either too high. Too high a dose of A314 and the alpha respect vibe overpoweres a lot of "you". Too high a dose of Ammo - and in this case none in particular - and we get an OD effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renny View Post
I know when I started I was spraying this and that and changing around all the time. Then when I was going to Spanish class I really got into testing stuff and looking for reactions because I had a good opportunity to do it. I found there that unless I was doing some megadose thing it was best to wear something for at least 2 or 3 classes straight to get a good idea of what was happening.
How many times can you mention that principle my friend - test the new stuff several times to get a good feel for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renny View Post
It seems that the longer I use pheromones the more benefit I find to changing signal abruptly but infrequently. By changing more abruptly and not overlapping I seem to be able to hold their (my customers) attention better and get better responses long term. With new customers or infrequent customers it really doesn't matter because the heightened pheromone signal is always there.
Another gem here - Gegogi says the same thing - people get used to your phero-signature so you gotta change it some from time to time so they don't get too used to it and you continue to stand out. This is the flip-side to what Daedelus told us above is called "operant conditioning". The good news we have seen is that when we change to a different base people retain their positive impressions from the old base (say alpha respect from A314 ) while picking up on the new positive impressions from the new base (say cool/smooth from Instant Gentleman ).

of course, the flip side to that

Quote:
Originally Posted by renny View Post
In fact the more I use them the simpler I like to keep things.
Me too for the most part. I usually do not do mega-mixes and leave that up to the phero-geniuses here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renny View Post
Good thread as usual.
Thanks to all the well thought-out responses.

Last edited by bosshank; May 31st, 2008 at 09:12 AM.
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